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Author Topic: Keepers and Rejects  (Read 1271 times)

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Olde Tymer

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Keepers and Rejects
« on: January 22, 2019, 08:11:42 am »
.
I ran across an interesting story on YouTube recently. It's about a man who grew up in a Christian home and attended a Christian church. He believed that Jesus Christ died for his sins and rose again. He believed in the Spirit birth about which Jesus spoke in John 3:3-8. He was baptized in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit; and he prayed to Jesus, confessing his sins on a regular basis. He had the assurance of his salvation and sincerely believed had eternal life,

Today that same man is an Atheist; and even though he explained why, it still puzzled me that an apparently born-again Christian could lose so much faith in Christ and the Bible.

But I had overlooked the fine print in something Jesus taught; which goes like this:

"All that the Father gives me will come to me, and the one who comes to me I will certainly not cast out." (John 6:37)

The man had come to Jesus; but apparently was not among those whom the Father had given him; therefore Jesus could not promise to take the man on permanently in accordance with his Father's will.

"I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of Him who sent me. And this is the will of Him who sent me; that I shall lose none of all that He has given me" (John 6:38-39)

I attended a Billy Graham crusade in San Diego back in August of 1976 and was frankly surprised at the large number of people coming forward that night to accept Jesus Christ as their personal savior. Well, looking back; I am now very curious to know how many of those that came forward were selected to join the fortunate ones that the Father gives to His son for safekeeping because anybody with a mind to can come to Jesus, but not all who do so are taken on.

"Many are called, but few are chosen." (Matt 22:14)

"Be all the more diligent to make certain about His calling and choosing you" (2Pet 1:10)
_

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Lori Bolinger

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Re: Keepers and Rejects
« Reply #1 on: January 22, 2019, 10:34:00 am »
.
I ran across an interesting story on YouTube recently. It's about a man who grew up in a Christian home and attended a Christian church. He believed that Jesus Christ died for his sins and rose again. He believed in the Spirit birth about which Jesus spoke in John 3:3-8. He was baptized in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit; and he prayed to Jesus, confessing his sins on a regular basis. He had the assurance of his salvation and sincerely believed had eternal life,

Today that same man is an Atheist; and even though he explained why, it still puzzled me that an apparently born-again Christian could lose so much faith in Christ and the Bible.

But I had overlooked the fine print in something Jesus taught; which goes like this:

"All that the Father gives me will come to me, and the one who comes to me I will certainly not cast out." (John 6:37)

The man had come to Jesus; but apparently was not among those whom the Father had given him; therefore Jesus could not promise to take the man on permanently in accordance with his Father's will.

"I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of Him who sent me. And this is the will of Him who sent me; that I shall lose none of all that He has given me" (John 6:38-39)

I attended a Billy Graham crusade in San Diego back in August of 1976 and was frankly surprised at the large number of people coming forward that night to accept Jesus Christ as their personal savior. Well, looking back; I am now very curious to know how many of those that came forward were selected to join the fortunate ones that the Father gives to His son for safekeeping because anybody with a mind to can come to Jesus, but not all who do so are taken on.

"Many are called, but few are chosen." (Matt 22:14)

"Be all the more diligent to make certain about His calling and choosing you" (2Pet 1:10)
_

John 17:12
While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.


Mark 4:13And he said unto them, Know ye not this parable? and how then will ye know all parables? 14The sower soweth the word. 15And these are they by the way side, where the word is sown; but when they have heard, Satan cometh immediately, and taketh away the word that was sown in their hearts. 16And these are they likewise which are sown on stony ground; who, when they have heard the word, immediately receive it with gladness; 17And have no root in themselves, and so endure but for a time: afterward, when affliction or persecution ariseth for the word's sake, immediately they are offended. 18And these are they which are sown among thorns; such as hear the word, 19And the cares of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, and the lusts of other things entering in, choke the word, and it becometh unfruitful. 20And these are they which are sown on good ground; such as hear the word, and receive it, and bring forth fruit, some thirtyfold, some sixty, and some an hundred.

How do these two passages fit your understanding above?
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patrick jane

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Re: Keepers and Rejects
« Reply #2 on: January 22, 2019, 11:21:01 am »
I think John 17:12 is talking about the Apostles and Judas. The parable is saying we must have a strong foundation for faith. I can't imagine myself changing to atheist. It seems impossible for me to NOT believe.

Lori Bolinger

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Re: Keepers and Rejects
« Reply #3 on: January 22, 2019, 12:36:43 pm »
I think John 17:12 is talking about the Apostles and Judas. The parable is saying we must have a strong foundation for faith. I can't imagine myself changing to atheist. It seems impossible for me to NOT believe.
amen but it does show that Christ "lost" one that was given to Him. 

If we interpret the elect as those that are chosen for a specific task rather than those that are chosen for salvation, there is no conflict with any of these passages. 

Equally, if we look at the parable of the sower we see that it is still our choice whether to follow or not.  God absolutely equips us but the choice is still ours.
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Olde Tymer

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Re: Keepers and Rejects
« Reply #4 on: January 22, 2019, 01:06:01 pm »
.
it does show that Christ "lost" one that was given to Him


Judas wasn't given to Jesus to be safekept as one of his sheep. Judas was a satanic agent given to Jesus for the express purpose of fulfilling an Old Testament prophecy: very likely Ps 41:9.

If God would do that with an apostle, I really have to wonder how many of today's church officers are satanic agents given to Jesus for a special purpose.
_
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Lori Bolinger

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Re: Keepers and Rejects
« Reply #5 on: January 22, 2019, 01:57:00 pm »
.
it does show that Christ "lost" one that was given to Him


Judas wasn't given to Jesus to be safekept as one of his sheep. Judas was a satanic agent given to Jesus for the express purpose of fulfilling an Old Testament prophecy: very likely Ps 41:9.

If God would do that with an apostle, I really have to wonder how many of today's church officers are satanic agents given to Jesus for a special purpose.
_

John 17:12
While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.


that the scriptures might be fulfilled...how does that apply to those church officers today?  What scripture are they fulfilling...;)
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patrick jane

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Re: Keepers and Rejects
« Reply #6 on: August 04, 2020, 01:31:33 pm »
hello

patrick jane

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Re: Keepers and Rejects
« Reply #7 on: September 21, 2020, 03:48:21 pm »

patrick jane

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patrick jane

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patrick jane

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