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Author Topic: Abortion Is Murder - Change My Mind  (Read 4778 times)

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patrick jane

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Re: Abortion Is Murder - Change My Mind
« Reply #52 on: October 11, 2020, 10:20:00 am »
I got hate mail for a college newspaper column I wrote on abortion.  Neither side then or now likes facts they just want to defend  a mde up controversy from way back the one party  needed to deflect the news to something else.

The bottom line for me, is while I do not like abortion, I will not force my feelings on others that I know nothing about the situation.  That is not how I was raised as a Christian to force others to conform with my thinking.

I am however pro-education.  If we as a nation would suck it up, make young men responsible for their action, make both genders have good sex education include reproductive and history information including the horror of abortion you could reduce abortion by as much as 85%. 

Thank is a fact that has existed for a long time everyone wishes  to avoid.    That said I think Roe v Wade needs upheld strictly on health reasons.  I am from era of back alley abortions that killed lots of ladies.  Neither should have had to die baby or mom.  But I think some strong common sense regulations need put in place country wide and not longer leave it to the states.

Just a humble opinion.
Thank you brother, good post.
:'(
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Re: Abortion Is Murder - Change My Mind
« Reply #53 on: October 13, 2020, 04:46:28 pm »

https://www.christianitytoday.com/news/2020/october/trump-covid-fetal-cell-lines-regeneron-vaccines-pro-life.html








Amid COVID-19, Pro-Lifers Push to Avoid Abortive Fetal Cells in Medicine




Despite the ethical challenges, most still concede to using old cell lines in life-saving drugs.


President Donald Trump has praised the treatments he received for the coronavirus, including an experimental COVID-19 drug cocktail, as “miracles coming down from God.” But in the week after his hospitalization, some questioned the president’s endorsement of the medication—which he says he wants to make more widely available for free—since it was tested using aborted fetal tissue and his administration promotes a pro-life platform.

This is an ethical dilemma that pro-life Christians have wrestled through long before the coronavirus. Given the role of old fetal cell lines in more than half a century of vaccine development—including options for a COVID-19 vaccine—many have been able to reconcile the use of fetal tissue from decades-old abortions while opposing the use of fetal tissue from new abortions for further testing.

That’s actually the current position of the Trump administration as well. Last year, the US Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) announced plans to discontinue research “that requires new acquisition of fetal tissue from elective abortions,” though it will still allow the use of abortive fetal tissue through older cell lines, of which there is plenty in supply.

Trump’s treatment included an antibody developed by Regeneron Pharmaceuticals, which used a fetal tissue cell line from an abortion in the 1970s to test the efficacy of the drug. Several COVID-19 vaccine candidates also use this cell line.

The actual drug cocktail contains two antibodies. The first uses embryonic mouse stem cell lines—not human ones—genetically altered to contain human antibodies from previously recovered patients, a research technique often termed “humanized mice.” The second antibody is produced in hamster cells.

The Charlotte Lozier Institute, affiliated with the pro-life Susan B. Anthony List, deemed it an “ethical treatment” because of the composition of the drug. The institute has not advocated against the use of animal stem cells.

As far as the testing, “there are ethically derived cell lines that could be used instead,” said David Prentice, the institute’s vice president and research director. “It’s disappointing that they chose to do the tests with the old fetal cell line.”

But Lozier, like other religious groups that oppose abortion, sees a distinction between testing a treatment using the old cell lines and using abortions to obtain further fetal tissue for research.

Researchers sought fetal tissue from elective abortions dating back to the 1960s, creating cell lines that are still used today, after having been multiplied in a lab and frozen. Two of these older fetal cell lines are used mainly to manufacture vaccines, including those for rubella (in the MMR) and chickenpox. The other two are immortalized cell lines, meaning they will grow continuously. Some of these are used in current COVID-19 vaccine candidates.

The Lozier Institute tracks pharmaceutical companies’ use of these abortive cell lines in the development, production, and testing of COVID-19 vaccine options; some use them throughout the development process, and others only in testing.

Prentice felt that the same reasoning for the moral good of vaccines holds true for the Regeneron treatment the president receivd.

Though a growing number of individual Christians refuse vaccines on moral grounds, many institutions, such as the Southern Baptist Ethics & Religious Liberty Commission and the Catholic church, support immunizations while acknowledging their dismaying history. They make the case that the use of older fetal cell lines, while not ideal, is not creating additional harm. As the Catholic church concluded for vaccines: Beneficiaries of the drug are not culpable in the original sin of the abortion.

In a previous CT interview, Francis Collins, the director of the NIH and a committed Christian, suggested comparing it to an organ donation after a tragic shooting, saying that the giving of tissue would still be considered “a noble and honorable action” even though we acknowledge an evil was done.

An evangelical Protestant, Prentice weighs other ethical questions against arguments to refuse vaccines: “Is there a grave reason to use it (such as preventing death or serious illness)? If yes, is there any alternative?” If not, he says, people should feel free to ethically receive the vaccine or drug in question.

The Catholic church wrote that doctors and families may determine it necessary to use vaccines developed using the fetal cell lines to prevent illness and death. It suggested that they also have a duty to oppose the use of the fetal cells and pressure the medical industry to use alternative methods.

Prentice offers a similar support. “Future directions for use of fetal tissue from ongoing abortion will hopefully be to move swiftly to better, modern techniques that do not use fetal tissue from elective abortion,” he said.

While most pro-life groups remain unenthused about the use of the abortive tissue in the COVID-19 vaccine candidates, as with other vaccines, they have not suggested people to refuse treatments or immunizations that are developed with the cell lines.

Prentice, who joined the first fetal tissue ethics board formed by a presidential administration, said those who feel the use of abortive fetuses is morally repugnant “should also feel a duty to advocate for a licitly-produced alternative.” That board includes many others who have publicly expressed pro-life views.

Per the new direction of the HHS, the board met in July to review present-day research proposals requiring acquisition of fetal tissue. It recommended only one proposal out of 14, though final decisions lie with the HHS. The recommended proposal—approved by two-thirds of the board—planned to use existing tissue, and if successful, wouldn’t require its future use.

The criteria the board used included review of the procedures for informed consent, which were not satisfying to some members in a number of cases. Though there are National Institutions of Health procedures in place today, to some, lack of consent tainted the process of obtaining the original fetal cell lines.

Some also raised issue with an NIH call for research proposals that originally required scientists to use fetal tissue to compare their treatment with alternatives. “This was an unfortunate specification, as there is neither ethical nor scientific justification for a specific fetal tissue comparator,” said Prentice, suggesting there are other possibilities.

Kathleen Schmainda, a Catholic and a biophysicist at the Medical College of Wisconsin who also served on the ethics board, said that alternatives “are proven to be scientifically viable and often scientifically preferable.”

She pointed to the list of COVID-19 vaccine candidates in trials that do not use fetal tissue cells as evidence that scientists are preferring not to use them in some cases. For example, several Chinese vaccine candidates use vero monkey cells. The Moderna and Pfizer candidates use no cells in the design or production instead creating the vaccine with a genetic sequencing on computers, though they use fetal cell lines in lab testing.

One avenue for ethically obtaining fetal tissue could be the use of banks that maintain fetal tissue from miscarriages, said Schmainda. While some scientists will say they prefer abortive fetal tissue because it is healthier, Schmainda maintains that most miscarriages are due to pregnancy complications, not genetic abnormalities.









Board chair Paige Comstock Cunningham, who is also the interim president at Taylor University, could not be reached for comment. The ethics board is dissolved each year. If President Trump is reelected, a new ethics board will assess proposals in coming years.
Hearing, believing and trusting the finished work of Jesus Christ on the cross; His death, burial and resurrection for the forgiveness of sins and REPENTING, seals us with that Holy Spirit of Promise - EPHESIANS 1:10-14 KJV - The Lord is not slack concerning His promise. 2 Peter 3:9 KJV - 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV - Ephesians 1:10-14 KJV - Romans 10:9-10 KJV - Romans 10:13 - Romans 10:17 - Ephesians 1:7 KJV - Colossians 1:14 KJV -


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Hearing, believing and trusting the finished work of Jesus Christ on the cross; His death, burial and resurrection for the forgiveness of sins and REPENTING, seals us with that Holy Spirit of Promise - EPHESIANS 1:10-14 KJV - The Lord is not slack concerning His promise. 2 Peter 3:9 KJV - 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV - Ephesians 1:10-14 KJV - Romans 10:9-10 KJV - Romans 10:13 - Romans 10:17 - Ephesians 1:7 KJV - Colossians 1:14 KJV -


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Hearing, believing and trusting the finished work of Jesus Christ on the cross; His death, burial and resurrection for the forgiveness of sins and REPENTING, seals us with that Holy Spirit of Promise - EPHESIANS 1:10-14 KJV - The Lord is not slack concerning His promise. 2 Peter 3:9 KJV - 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV - Ephesians 1:10-14 KJV - Romans 10:9-10 KJV - Romans 10:13 - Romans 10:17 - Ephesians 1:7 KJV - Colossians 1:14 KJV -


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Re: Abortion Is Murder - Change My Mind
« Reply #57 on: October 27, 2020, 10:37:40 am »

https://www.christianitytoday.com/news/2020/october/john-deberry-tennessee-pro-life-democrat-state-legislature.html








Ousted by Party, Former Democrat Holds to Pro-Life Platform in Tennessee





Longtime state legislator and Memphis pastor John DeBerry is now running as an Independent.


Editor’s note: This profile is the fourth in a CT series featuring Christian candidates who are running for legislative office in November.

John DeBerry insists he is not the one who changed; the Tennessee Democratic Party did.

The 69-year-old politician and Church of Christ pastor has represented part of Memphis in the state House of Representatives since 1994. But this year, after 13 consecutive victories in Tennessee’s 90th District, DeBerry was removed from the ballot and prohibited from running for reelection as a Democrat.

The Tennessee Democratic Party chair said DeBerry, who has voted according to his pro-life stance on abortion as well as in favor of school choice, “demonstrated more loyalty to the Republican Party than to the Democratic Party.”

DeBerry insists his voters have always known where he stood on abortion and other social issues; they sent him to Nashville again and again. “Life has mattered my entire career,” he told Christianity Today. “My principles have not changed, and I am not changing my principles because I have a D behind my name.”

DeBerry’s fight to stay in the race in Tennessee is an example of the precarious political position a dwindling number of pro-life Democratic politicians find themselves in. But DeBerry wants to remain in the party because, knowing his constituents, he believes he’s not alone; he says they too are Christian Democrats who stand for life.

DeBerry has been a Democrat since 1968 when he voted in his first presidential election. His parents were Democrats, but his grandparents had been Eisenhower Republicans. It was Christian leaders taking a stand during the civil rights movement—former president Jimmy Carter, Martin Luther King Jr., and Ralph Abernathy—that first spurred his own interest in politics.

DeBerry, who is also a pastor at Coleman Avenue Church of Christ in Memphis, sees faith as the foundation for his career in public service and how he thinks through policy issues.

He says you cannot fight for what is right based on political labels, but most rely on deeper convictions. “Fashion changes, style changes, laws change, but principles which are built on the Word of God don't change,” he said.

DeBerry believes abortion violates both God’s laws and the American principle that all persons have constitutional rights not based on their place of residency—those rights extend to those residing in the womb too.

The Tennessee politician, now running as an Independent, blames state party officials for taking a fundamentally undemocratic action to remove him from the ballot. He was already on the ballot when the party announced their decision, and a few of his colleagues spoke out on his behalf. House Minority Leader Karen Camper, a fellow Memphis Democrat, called the party’s actions “[an attempt] to nullify the choice of the people of the 90th District.”

DeBerry’s conservative positions may have frustrated some of his pro-choice colleagues, but they respect his leadership. They voted for him to serve as minority leader pro tempore for the entire Democratic Caucus. Legislators also passed a bipartisan bill to amend the Tennessee election code, allowing incumbents disqualified by their party’s executive committee, like DeBerry, to file a new petition under a different party identification past the standard filing deadline.

DeBerry has chosen to run as an Independent. On November 3, he will face progressive Democrat Torrey Harris, who would be both the youngest and the first openly gay member of the Tennessee House. When asked why he did not simply run as a Republican, DeBerry stated, “If I wanted to run as a Republican, I could have, but the majority of the district consists of Christian Democrats who share my pro-life views.”

According to Pew Research, young black Protestants have become less rigid in their opposition to abortion than previous generations, in part because they are more likely to view racial justice for those who are born as paramount. Yet DeBerry’s assertion that the majority of the black Democrats in his district share his views is borne out by the fact that he has beat out liberal African Americans in primary races twice since his district was redrawn in 2012, including Harris, his current Democratic opponent.

DeBerry is among state legislative candidates in ten states who received endorsements from Democrats for Life of America in 2020; the group endorsed just a single candidate for US Congress—Rep. Collin Peterson of Minnesota—this year.

Kristen Day, executive director of Democrats for Life, believes that “you do not have to be a Republican to care about life,” and as the party of the vulnerable and marginalized, the Democratic Party should take a stand for the unborn. Or at least not exclude politicians for doing so.

Day has pushed for an “inclusive, ‘big tent’ party” that doesn’t rely on abortion rights as the foundation of its platform and wouldn’t target pro-life Democrats like DeBerry. On a national level, US Rep. Dan Lipinski, a pro-life Democrat who served Illinois’s 3rd District for 15 years, lost his primary earlier this year to a pro-choice challenger who rallied more funding and support.

DeBerry likewise believes that the issue of abortion isn’t as starkly partisan as the “party elites” presume. According to a 2019 Gallup Poll on abortion, 24 percent of Democratic voters and 44 percent of Independent voters identify as pro-life. He says Democrats should not exclude that sizeable minority—many of them, like him, are religious people whose faith leads them to oppose abortion.

In evangelical denominations like DeBerry’s Churches of Christ, the Southern Baptist Convention, and Assemblies of God, as well as the historically black Church of God in Christ denomination, most say abortion should be illegal in all or most circumstances, per a Pew Research Center survey.

DeBerry cites one of his favorite verses, Matthew 22:21, “Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar’s; and unto God the things that are God’s” (KJV), as part of his reasoning for his stance. For DeBerry, only God decides life and death.

DeBerry is unsure whether he will caucus as a Democrat or Republican should the 90th District residents send him back to Nashville as an Independent. But he pledges, no matter what side he’s on, to always place principles over party and personality.








Kathryn Freeman is an attorney and former director of public policy for the Texas Baptists’ Christian Life Commission. Currently, she is a master of divinity student at Baylor University’s Truett Seminary and one-half of the podcast Melanated Faith.
Hearing, believing and trusting the finished work of Jesus Christ on the cross; His death, burial and resurrection for the forgiveness of sins and REPENTING, seals us with that Holy Spirit of Promise - EPHESIANS 1:10-14 KJV - The Lord is not slack concerning His promise. 2 Peter 3:9 KJV - 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV - Ephesians 1:10-14 KJV - Romans 10:9-10 KJV - Romans 10:13 - Romans 10:17 - Ephesians 1:7 KJV - Colossians 1:14 KJV -


Copyright Disclaimer: All audio and music belongs to the owner/creator. This is a non-profit. Under Section 107 of the Copyright Act 1976, allowance is made for "fair use" for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, and research. Fair use is a use permitted by copyright statute that might otherwise be infringing.

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Re: Abortion Is Murder - Change My Mind
« Reply #58 on: October 27, 2020, 07:52:16 pm »

https://www.christianitytoday.com/news/2020/october/john-deberry-tennessee-pro-life-democrat-state-legislature.html








Ousted by Party, Former Democrat Holds to Pro-Life Platform in Tennessee





Longtime state legislator and Memphis pastor John DeBerry is now running as an Independent.


Editor’s note: This profile is the fourth in a CT series featuring Christian candidates who are running for legislative office in November.

John DeBerry insists he is not the one who changed; the Tennessee Democratic Party did.

The 69-year-old politician and Church of Christ pastor has represented part of Memphis in the state House of Representatives since 1994. But this year, after 13 consecutive victories in Tennessee’s 90th District, DeBerry was removed from the ballot and prohibited from running for reelection as a Democrat.

The Tennessee Democratic Party chair said DeBerry, who has voted according to his pro-life stance on abortion as well as in favor of school choice, “demonstrated more loyalty to the Republican Party than to the Democratic Party.”

DeBerry insists his voters have always known where he stood on abortion and other social issues; they sent him to Nashville again and again. “Life has mattered my entire career,” he told Christianity Today. “My principles have not changed, and I am not changing my principles because I have a D behind my name.”

DeBerry’s fight to stay in the race in Tennessee is an example of the precarious political position a dwindling number of pro-life Democratic politicians find themselves in. But DeBerry wants to remain in the party because, knowing his constituents, he believes he’s not alone; he says they too are Christian Democrats who stand for life.

DeBerry has been a Democrat since 1968 when he voted in his first presidential election. His parents were Democrats, but his grandparents had been Eisenhower Republicans. It was Christian leaders taking a stand during the civil rights movement—former president Jimmy Carter, Martin Luther King Jr., and Ralph Abernathy—that first spurred his own interest in politics.

DeBerry, who is also a pastor at Coleman Avenue Church of Christ in Memphis, sees faith as the foundation for his career in public service and how he thinks through policy issues.

He says you cannot fight for what is right based on political labels, but most rely on deeper convictions. “Fashion changes, style changes, laws change, but principles which are built on the Word of God don't change,” he said.

DeBerry believes abortion violates both God’s laws and the American principle that all persons have constitutional rights not based on their place of residency—those rights extend to those residing in the womb too.

The Tennessee politician, now running as an Independent, blames state party officials for taking a fundamentally undemocratic action to remove him from the ballot. He was already on the ballot when the party announced their decision, and a few of his colleagues spoke out on his behalf. House Minority Leader Karen Camper, a fellow Memphis Democrat, called the party’s actions “[an attempt] to nullify the choice of the people of the 90th District.”

DeBerry’s conservative positions may have frustrated some of his pro-choice colleagues, but they respect his leadership. They voted for him to serve as minority leader pro tempore for the entire Democratic Caucus. Legislators also passed a bipartisan bill to amend the Tennessee election code, allowing incumbents disqualified by their party’s executive committee, like DeBerry, to file a new petition under a different party identification past the standard filing deadline.

DeBerry has chosen to run as an Independent. On November 3, he will face progressive Democrat Torrey Harris, who would be both the youngest and the first openly gay member of the Tennessee House. When asked why he did not simply run as a Republican, DeBerry stated, “If I wanted to run as a Republican, I could have, but the majority of the district consists of Christian Democrats who share my pro-life views.”

According to Pew Research, young black Protestants have become less rigid in their opposition to abortion than previous generations, in part because they are more likely to view racial justice for those who are born as paramount. Yet DeBerry’s assertion that the majority of the black Democrats in his district share his views is borne out by the fact that he has beat out liberal African Americans in primary races twice since his district was redrawn in 2012, including Harris, his current Democratic opponent.

DeBerry is among state legislative candidates in ten states who received endorsements from Democrats for Life of America in 2020; the group endorsed just a single candidate for US Congress—Rep. Collin Peterson of Minnesota—this year.

Kristen Day, executive director of Democrats for Life, believes that “you do not have to be a Republican to care about life,” and as the party of the vulnerable and marginalized, the Democratic Party should take a stand for the unborn. Or at least not exclude politicians for doing so.

Day has pushed for an “inclusive, ‘big tent’ party” that doesn’t rely on abortion rights as the foundation of its platform and wouldn’t target pro-life Democrats like DeBerry. On a national level, US Rep. Dan Lipinski, a pro-life Democrat who served Illinois’s 3rd District for 15 years, lost his primary earlier this year to a pro-choice challenger who rallied more funding and support.

DeBerry likewise believes that the issue of abortion isn’t as starkly partisan as the “party elites” presume. According to a 2019 Gallup Poll on abortion, 24 percent of Democratic voters and 44 percent of Independent voters identify as pro-life. He says Democrats should not exclude that sizeable minority—many of them, like him, are religious people whose faith leads them to oppose abortion.

In evangelical denominations like DeBerry’s Churches of Christ, the Southern Baptist Convention, and Assemblies of God, as well as the historically black Church of God in Christ denomination, most say abortion should be illegal in all or most circumstances, per a Pew Research Center survey.

DeBerry cites one of his favorite verses, Matthew 22:21, “Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar’s; and unto God the things that are God’s” (KJV), as part of his reasoning for his stance. For DeBerry, only God decides life and death.

DeBerry is unsure whether he will caucus as a Democrat or Republican should the 90th District residents send him back to Nashville as an Independent. But he pledges, no matter what side he’s on, to always place principles over party and personality.








Kathryn Freeman is an attorney and former director of public policy for the Texas Baptists’ Christian Life Commission. Currently, she is a master of divinity student at Baylor University’s Truett Seminary and one-half of the podcast Melanated Faith.


;D

1 Cor 15:3-4.."For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:"

Acts 17:11.."These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so."

 

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