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Author Topic: Pre-Conception Existence - an intro  (Read 526 times)

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Ted T.

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Pre-Conception Existence - an intro
« on: May 11, 2019, 05:11:13 pm »
  Theories of the creation of Spirits in GODís image
 
Traducianism is a doctrine about the origin of the soul or synonymously, spirit, holding that this immaterial aspect is transmitted through natural generation along with the body, the material aspect of human beings.


Creationism of the soul / spirit is a doctrine held by some Christians that God creates a soul for each body that is generated by physical  conception.


The Pre-Conception Existence (PCE) of the soul / spirit. All spirits created in the image of GOD were created at the same time BEFORE the creation of the physical universe which we all saw, Job 38:7 and Rom 1:20.


In this forum I will discuss as I can the scriptures in support of PCE. I have studied this theory for circa 40 years so rebuttal designed to teach me what orthodoxy says will be a total waste of time and energy. Better would be an exegesis of the verses I use to prove Iíve missed their meaning, ie, Iíd rather discuss interpretation than ortho doctrine.


Of course I do not take my interpretation to be the only option - I present it to encourage lateral thinking about the blasphemies underlying Christian doctrine to encourage a search for the best solution. I do not believe there is any one or two verses that are so perfect they prove without doubt that PCE is true any more than there are any such verses that prove Calvinism, Arminianism or Catholicism are true.


I also challenge anyone to find even one verse that even simply implies that PCE might be theologically impossible - waste all the time you want on this one; it is not there.

I will also visit the blasphemies that orthodoxy is founded upon and discuss the PCE alternatives. As a challenge I ask: Do you know of any blasphemies at the base of Christian orthodoxy? If not, why not? Are you not educated bible scholars yet you have never come across anything that someone has suggested is a blasphemy at the base of Christianity? Should be fun, eh?







« Last Edit: May 11, 2019, 11:58:22 pm by Ted T. »

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patrick jane

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Re: Pre-Conception Existence - an intro
« Reply #1 on: May 11, 2019, 05:27:52 pm »
  Theories of the creation of Spirits in GODís image
 
Traducianism is a doctrine about the origin of the soul or synonymously, spirit, holding that this immaterial aspect is transmitted through natural generation along with the body, the material aspect of human beings.


Creationism of the soul / spirit is a doctrine held by some Christians that God creates a soul for each body that is generated by physical  conception.


The Pre-Conception Existence (PCE) of the soul / spirit. All spirits created in the image of GOD were created at the same time BEFORE the creation of the physical universe which we all saw, Job 38:7 and Rom 1:20.


In this forum I will present as I can the scriptures in support of PCE. I have studied this theory for circa 40 years so rebuttal designed to teach me what orthodoxy says will be a total waste of time and energy. Better would be an exegesis of the verses I use to prove Iíve missed their meaning, ie, Iíd rather discuss interpretation than ortho doctrine.


I will also visit the blasphemies that orthodoxy is founded upon and discuss the PCE alternatives. As a challenge I ask: Do you know of any blasphemies at the base of Cristian orthodoxy? If not, why not?Are you not educated bible scholars yet you have never come across anything that someone has suggested is a blasphemy at the base of Chrisitany? Should be fun, eh?
Very interesting and I think supported. I read some interesting testimony from Edgar Cayce who many say was in touch with the spirit of God and he said all souls were created in the beginning and none have been created since. He also talked about reincarnation while in a trance like state. He could speak other languages and could see and know things in the trance that he did not know when he was awake.

I'm not trying to change the subject nor am I relating PCE to Edgar Cayce or reincarnation. I'm only relaying what I read as I was reading that book before I started reading the Bible. Thank you Ted, I will enjoy your posts very much.
Hearing, believing and trusting the finished work of Jesus Christ on the cross; His death, burial and resurrection for the forgiveness of sins, the gospel of our salvation, and repenting, seals us with that Holy Spirit of Promise. The Lord is not slack concerning His promise. 2 Peter 3:9 KJV - 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV - Ephesians 1:10-14 KJV - Romans 10:9-10 KJV - Romans 10:13 - Romans 10:17 - Ephesians 1:7 KJV - Colossians 1:14 KJV -


Copyright Disclaimer: All audio and music belongs to the owner/creator. This is a non-profit. Under Section 107 of the Copyright Act 1976, allowance is made for "fair use" for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, and research. Fair use is a use permitted by copyright statute that might otherwise be infringing.
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Ted T.

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Re: Pre-Conception Existence - an intro
« Reply #2 on: May 12, 2019, 02:15:15 pm »
Edgar Cayce, my my, a name from long long ago...


Most of the world believes in some form of pre-earth existence except Christianity. IF I did not think the Bible supported PCE then I would not accept it, not matter what the rest of the world believed.


But I do think the Bible supports PCE.


As for reincarnation, I think reincarnation and PCE are two distinct and separate theologies, not corollaries of each other. There is room in PCE for the reincarnation of the non-elect. I don't think their reincarnation does them any good at all but it does bear witness to the sinful elect that these reprobate will never, can never, change no matter how many lives they live thru and therefore their end in the outer darkness is a forced inevitably. It may also account for the sinfulness of animals (proven later) if they are inhabited by 'dead' sinful spirits.


To think that the sinful elect need more than one life to be redeemed casts aspersion upon HIS ability to deal with them in one lifetime, so I reject reincarnation for the elect on earth. 
« Last Edit: May 25, 2019, 01:42:02 pm by Ted T. »
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patrick jane

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Re: Pre-Conception Existence - an intro
« Reply #3 on: May 18, 2019, 11:47:16 pm »
Edgar Cayce, my my, a name from long long ago...


Most of the world believes in some form of pre-earth existence except Christianity. IF I did not think the Bible supported PCE then I would not accept it, not matter what the rest of the world believed.


But I do think the Bible supports PCE.


As for reincarnation, I think reincarnation and PCE are two distinct and separate theologies, not corollaries of each other. There is room in PCE for the reincarnation of the non-elect. I don't think their reincarnation does them any good at all but it does bear witness to the sinful elect that these reprobate will never, can never, change no matter how many lives they live thru and therefore their end in the outer darkness is a forced inevitably.


To think that the sinful elect need more than one life to be redeemed casts aspersion upon HIS ability to deal with them in one lifetime, so I reject reincarnation for the elect on earth.
Ted, why do we have no memory of this decision we made prior to creation?
Hearing, believing and trusting the finished work of Jesus Christ on the cross; His death, burial and resurrection for the forgiveness of sins, the gospel of our salvation, and repenting, seals us with that Holy Spirit of Promise. The Lord is not slack concerning His promise. 2 Peter 3:9 KJV - 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV - Ephesians 1:10-14 KJV - Romans 10:9-10 KJV - Romans 10:13 - Romans 10:17 - Ephesians 1:7 KJV - Colossians 1:14 KJV -


Copyright Disclaimer: All audio and music belongs to the owner/creator. This is a non-profit. Under Section 107 of the Copyright Act 1976, allowance is made for "fair use" for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, and research. Fair use is a use permitted by copyright statute that might otherwise be infringing.

Ted T.

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Re: Pre-Conception Existence - an intro
« Reply #4 on: May 19, 2019, 01:11:13 pm »
Ted, why do we have no memory of this decision we made prior to creation?

I read the answer in Romans 1 where it talks about sinners repressing, suppressing, the truth becomes they love sin more than the truth. It is one of the more pernicious effects of becoming a sinner, sigh. Romans does speak specifically to those under HIS wrath and I believe John 3:18  Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God's one and only Son. tells us that sinful believers are never under condemnation, ie, wrath, but I have experienced this repression in myself in my sin so I am comfortable thinking it applies to the uncondemned sinful elect also.

Also, there is whole Christian sub-culture that insists on death as a return home which is perfectly PCE even without the theology and it implies that some residual memory of pre-earth as our home might exist.


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Bladerunner

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Re: Pre-Conception Existence - an intro
« Reply #5 on: May 19, 2019, 09:14:54 pm »
Ted, why do we have no memory of this decision we made prior to creation?

I read the answer in Romans 1 where it talks about sinners repressing, suppressing, the truth becomes they love sin more than the truth. It is one of the more pernicious effects of becoming a sinner, sigh. Romans does speak specifically to those under HIS wrath and I believe John 3:18  Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God's one and only Son. tells us that sinful believers are never under condemnation, ie, wrath, but I have experienced this repression in myself in my sin so I am comfortable thinking it applies to the uncondemned sinful elect also.

Also, there is whole Christian sub-culture that insists on death as a return home which is perfectly PCE even without the theology and it implies that some residual memory of pre-earth as our home might exist.

This follows the Gap theory between Genesis 1:1 and Genesis 1:2

Blade
1 Cor 15:3-4.."For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:"

Acts 17:11.."These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so."
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Ted T.

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Re: Pre-Conception Existence - an intro
« Reply #6 on: May 20, 2019, 12:20:41 pm »
This follows the Gap theory between Genesis 1:1 and Genesis 1:2
Believing in the Deity of Christ does not make a Calvinist nor Arminian a Catholic.  Similar aspects are differentiated by the bulk of the theology.

 

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