Author Topic: Pre-Conception Existence - an intro (Read 12115 times)

guest131 · « **Reply #78 on:** June 28, 2021, 11:32:38 pm »

Quote from: Mr E on June 28, 2021, 06:38:23 pm

Quote from: La Shonda on June 28, 2021, 06:31:44 pm
I edited the post hopefully it's fixed...

La Shonda-- you are amazing! Whiz kid!

... how?

I was deleting the coded bracelets ][ that's how I took the stuff out each place where it had those at with the size and font and colorThat's how I deleted those on there..

guest125 · « **Reply #79 on:** June 29, 2021, 10:03:07 am »

Quote from: Ted T. on June 28, 2021, 12:22:15 pm

Quote from: Mr E on June 28, 2021, 10:55:39 am
These thoughts reflect a bit of what Ted talks about, but maybe doesn't fully understand... The pre-existent one is God- and everything else comes from Him, returns to Him and remains as such- coming and going as He sees fit in obedience and service to Him-- our Father, not as slaves, but as sons--children of God. Those who don't remain are simply cut off, pruned-- like branches that don't produce fruit, destroyed by fire, consumed.

This post has been edited to point out that in it I used nothing from the editor, no bold, no italics, no change of colour or size. This mess was created by the editor on simple text. I feel dismayed, sabotaged and let down...sigh.

Depending on your definition of words I accept a lot this ...

I always refer to our first faith as in YHWH as our GOD and in the Son as our only saviour from all sin. These are references. I do not say Christ because that is a worldly reference to an anointed one and there are many besides the incarnate Son, Jesus.

I do NOT have a calling to protest niceties of salvation because my calling is to question the dogma about our fall into sin, especially the fall of the elect HIS bride. How are some of the doctrines about our sinfulness NOT blasphemies? How is our sinfulness to be reconciled with our perfect creation in innocence if not in righteousness without impugning GOD by that which is a sin to us.

Hi Ted-- I'd like to hear more from you on your view of 'the genesis' of our fall into sin, and the fall of the bride in particular.

This is a very PCE discussion to have. I wonder how far back you are looking?

guest58 · « **Reply #80 on:** June 29, 2021, 10:46:37 am »

Yep - the full 2 shot.

guest58 · « **Reply #81 on:** June 29, 2021, 10:59:56 am »

Quote from: La Shonda on June 28, 2021, 11:32:38 pm

Quote from: Mr E on June 28, 2021, 06:38:23 pm
Quote from: La Shonda on June 28, 2021, 06:31:44 pm
I edited the post hopefully it's fixed...

La Shonda-- you are amazing! Whiz kid!

... how?
I was deleting the coded bracelets ][ that's how I took the stuff out each place where it had those at with the size and font and colorThat's how I deleted those on there..

They will just reappear on my next post - I've been doing this for months and quit because no one was paying attention,

guest125 · « **Reply #82 on:** June 29, 2021, 11:08:26 am »

Quote from: Ted T. on June 29, 2021, 10:59:56 am

Quote from: La Shonda on June 28, 2021, 11:32:38 pm
Quote from: Mr E on June 28, 2021, 06:38:23 pm
Quote from: La Shonda on June 28, 2021, 06:31:44 pm
I edited the post hopefully it's fixed...

La Shonda-- you are amazing! Whiz kid!

... how?
I was deleting the coded bracelets ][ that's how I took the stuff out each place where it had those at with the size and font and colorThat's how I deleted those on there..

They will just reappear on my next post - I've been doing this for months and quit because no one was paying attention,

Perhaps, but now- thanks to Shonda, we know how to fix it.

guest58 · « **Reply #83 on:** June 29, 2021, 11:30:23 am »

Quote from: Mr E on June 29, 2021, 10:03:07 am

Hi Ted-- I'd like to hear more from you on your view of 'the genesis' of our fall into sin, and the fall of the bride in particular.

This is a very PCE discussion to have. I wonder how far back you are looking?

In this section the editor was not used for any modification of any text...

I start before the creation of anything...with the purpose for our creation as an act of love.

My two basic premises are 1. sin is accrued by the created person ONLY by a free will decision to reject YHWH as GOD or, while accepting HIS claims to be our GOD[size=78%], to rebel [/size]against[size=78%] a [/size]command[size=78%] HE gave us.[/size]

[size=78%]2. The [/size]election[size=78%] of some and not others to salvation from any future sin [/size][size=78%]CANNOT HAVE BEEN unconditional [/size]because[size=78%] no matter how it is sussed, [/size]unconditional[size=78%] election means also [/size]unconditional[size=78%] reprobation and [/size]damnation[size=78%] and that is not loving. PERIOD.[/size]

[size=78%]I also find [/size]that the reason[size=78%] for our [/size]election[size=78%] or reprobation before the [/size]foundation[size=78%] of the world must have two [/size]corollaries[size=78%]: 1. we were [/size]actually[size=78%] alive, ie, in [/size]existence[size=78%], and [/size]decidin[size=78%]g by our free will what we wanted our [/size]relationship[size=78%] with YHWH to be and 2. this [/size]decisionabout[size=78%] our future [/size]relationship[size=78%] was by faith ie, an unproven hope, which is the source, start, of all saving faith.[/size]

guest58 · « **Reply #84 on:** June 29, 2021, 11:31:44 am »

Quote from: Mr E on June 29, 2021, 10:03:07 am

Hi Ted-- I'd like to hear more from you on your view of 'the genesis' of our fall into sin, and the fall of the bride in particular.

This is a very PCE discussion to have. I wonder how far back you are looking?

Quote from: Mr E on June 29, 2021, 10:03:07 am

[/size]Hi Ted-- I'd like to hear more from you on your view of 'the genesis' of our fall into sin, and the fall of the bride in particular.This is a very PCE discussion to have. I wonder how far back you are looking?

In this post the editor was not used for any modification of any text but I pasted it into my mail program and ran it thru the ordinary text profile...I start before the creation of anything...with the purpose for our creation as an act of love.My two basic premises are 1. sin is accrued by the created person ONLY by a free will decision to reject YHWH as GOD or, while accepting HIS claims to be our GOD, to rebel against a command HE gave us.2. The election of some and not others to salvation from any future sin CANNOT HAVE BEEN unconditional because no matter how it is sussed, unconditional election means also unconditional reprobation and damnation and that is not loving. PERIOD.I also find that the reason for our election or reprobation before the foundation of the world must have two corollaries: 1. we were actually alive, ie, in existence, and deciding by our free will what we wanted our relationship with YHWH to be and 2. this decision about our future relationship was by faith ie, an unproven hope, which is the source, start, of all saving faith.

guest58 · « **Reply #85 on:** June 29, 2021, 11:34:39 am »

Quote from: Mr E on June 29, 2021, 10:03:07 am

Hi Ted-- I'd like to hear more from you on your view of 'the genesis' of our fall into sin, and the fall of the bride in particular.

This is a very PCE discussion to have. I wonder how far back you are looking?

Quote from: Mr E on June 29, 2021, 10:03:07 am

[/size]Hi Ted-- I'd like to hear more from you on your view of 'the genesis' of our fall into sin, and the fall of the bride in particular.This is a very PCE discussion to have. I wonder how far back you are looking?

In this section the editor was not used for any modification of any text but I pasted it into my mAil program and ran it thru the RICH TEXT profile...I start before the creation of anything...with the purpose for our creation as an act of love.My two basic premises are 1. sin is accrued by the created person ONLY by a free will decision to reject YHWH as GOD or, while accepting HIS claims to be our GOD, to rebel against a command HE gave us.2. The election of some and not others to salvation from any future sin CANNOT HAVE BEEN unconditional because no matter how it is sussed, unconditional election means also unconditional reprobation and damnation and that is not loving. PERIOD.I also find that the reason for our election or reprobation before the foundation of the world must have two corollaries: 1. we were actually alive, ie, in existence, and deciding by our free will what we wanted our relationship with YHWH to be and 2. this decision about our future relationship was by faith ie, an unproven hope, which is the source, start, of all saving faith.

guest58 · « **Reply #86 on:** June 29, 2021, 11:41:13 am »

It looks like creating my answers in my email program then pasting here is going to be a good work-around though the problem still exists..

Mr. E, the description of my thoughts on our fall after our election but before the creation of the physical universe is forth coming.

Edited to add: I DID NOT make the change size in paragraph 2, sigh.

guest125 · « **Reply #87 on:** June 29, 2021, 12:19:57 pm »

Very.... umm.... Calvinist.

Do you have a Christian Reformed background for your beliefs? I ask because they are the most likely to get hung up on "election."

guest125 · « **Reply #88 on:** June 29, 2021, 01:04:26 pm »

Does this sum up your view then, regarding those Calvinist beliefs? This is how Arminians countered the Calvinist idea of unconditional election (predestination) with something that could be called "conditional election."

That God, by an eternal, unchangeable purpose in Jesus Christ His Son, before the foundation of the world, hath determined, out of a fallen, sinful race of men, to save in Christ, for Christ's sake, and through Christ, those who, through the grace of the Holy Spirit, shall believe on this his Son Jesus, and shall persevere in this faith and obedience of faith, through this grace, even to the end; and, on the other hand, to leave the incorrigible and unbelieving in sin and under wrath, and to condemn them as alienate from Christ, according to the word of the gospel in John 3:36: "He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him," and according to other passages of Scripture also.

guest58 · « **Reply #89 on:** June 29, 2021, 05:26:53 pm »

Quote from: Mr E on June 29, 2021, 12:19:57 pm

Very.... umm.... Calvinist.

Do you have a Christian Reformed background for your beliefs? I ask because they are the most likely to get hung up on "election."

My goodness, what have you gone thru that the mere mention of the word election triggers such a knee jerk response???

I have no Calvinist background. I deplore the obvious inadequacies of Calvinist theology that led him into such blasphemous doctrines as UNconditional election.

If you should ever get out of your memories and relook at Calvinism again, you will quit equating me with them...you do yourself no favours with such a blatant disregard for my true pov.

Election is a fact. it has meaning. It affects our life.
Calvin botched it royally. I've spent 12 years dening Calvisit election publically.
Others botched it too but at least they don't always delve into blasphemy.

Dealing with your ad hominem disparagements is tiring...sigh.

guest58 · « **Reply #90 on:** June 29, 2021, 05:46:39 pm »

Quote from: Mr E on June 29, 2021, 01:04:26 pm

Does this sum up your view then, regarding those Calvinist beliefs? This is how Arminians countered the Calvinist idea of unconditional election (predestination) with something that could be called "conditional election."

I won’t read any further because I have no iota of acceptance for conditional election. Both Calvin and Arminius blasphemed the loving, righteous nature of GOD and HIS justice.

Calvin’s claim that our election or reprobation was unconditional is a blatant disrepute of GOD’s love. Arminius’ claim that GOD would have saved everyone if they would have just repented in time ie, in their lifetime, also brings HIS love into disrepute because HIS love is perfect and HIS perfect love is perfectly patient so HE would wait patiently for aeons for every person who could be saved to finally accept their salvation!

The idea there are people in hell which could have been saved but are not because He didn’t save them is ludicrous. The only people who are not saved are those who CANNOT be saved because they sinned the unforgivable sin of putting their faith in the idea that YHWH was a liar and therefore a false god!

These so called teachers may have some instruction in theology but they have no understanding nor experience of GOD’s love.

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Author Topic: Pre-Conception Existence - an intro (Read 12115 times)

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