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Author Topic: Pre-Conception Existence - an intro  (Read 11416 times)

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guest8

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Re: Pre-Conception Existence - an intro
« Reply #65 on: June 27, 2021, 10:38:34 pm »
I think you got that completely backwards there Blade.  God didn't consider Abraham in some manner to be "of Levi" but the other way around.  Levi was in every way "of Abraham."

I will agree with that!

-but that's not what the chapter is about.  The distinction that is being made is that Melchizedek isn't of Abraham, nor is he of Levi.... and yet Abraham and all of those who came after him (including Levi in a manner of speaking as one of Father Abraham's cone seeds) paid tribute to Melchizedek -- the lessor (Abraham) paid the tithe to the greater (Melchizedek) and it was this (greater) Priest who blessed the lessor tithe payer (Abraham).

I will even agree here!

Hebrews says that the law dictates that all priests must be Levites, but Melchizedek was neither a Levite, and not even from Father Abraham... no one knows his genealogy or where he came from or who his parents were, but we know not Abraham, and not Levi. And so Hebrews lays out clearly that it isn't through the law that the true priesthood is established but through the Son of God-- through Christ.  As further evidence, neither was Jesus a Levite, but scripture tells us that Jesus (of Judah, chief of sinners among the brothers) is our Priest forever and of the order of Melchizedek not because of physical lineage (Jesus was of Judah) but by means of an indestructible life... by resurrection.

By all of this we know that Melchizedek too, became a Priest in the same way (by resurrection) or he would not be the example given.

What should we make of this?

We know only the Melchizedek was the King of Salem and He was a Priest, something considered illegal in Israel. Other than that very little is known about him.  We do know that Jesus was a priest on earth as well as a rejected Messiah (King),long before His Resurrection.

However, because of the Resurrection and His Grace, the sins of the world was saved (IF) they would believe the Gospel of Jesus according to scripture. Those who are justified, will become Kings and Priest on the same order of Jesus Christ and Melchizedek.


Blade


guest125

  • Guest
Re: Pre-Conception Existence - an intro
« Reply #66 on: June 27, 2021, 11:21:01 pm »
Jesus was never a priest on earth. The law dictated that only Levites could become priests.  Jesus was from the tribe of Judah.

Maybe have a closer reading of Heb 7.  I'd venture a guess that most people miss it, but Hebrews points to another priest arising... from this same order of Mechizedek.  It speaks of our Lord (Jesus) who was a descendent not of Aaron (the Levite) but of Judah, and then it says IF ANOTHER priest arises according to the likeness of Mechizedek -who in turn Heb 7:3 says was himself made like the Son of God- a priest perpetually.



For it is evident that our Lord was descended from Judah, a tribe with reference to which Moses spoke nothing concerning priests. And this is clearer still, if another priest arises according to the likeness of Melchizedek,  who has become such not on the basis of a law of physical requirement, but according to the power of an indestructible life.  For it is attested of Him,
“YOU ARE A PRIEST FOREVER
ACCORDING TO THE ORDER OF MELCHIZEDEK.”


So Melchizedek was one of these like the Son of God- a priest forever, and Jesus by resurrection became of this same order of Priests, and IF another arises according to this same likeness, this one too would also become one of this same order and a priest forever.

Scripture, as you mention says that there is a kingdom of heaven where in spirit we are indeed a kingdom and priests that reign upon the earth.  Few understand what this means.  Fewer still can accept it.  And it isn't that corrupt priesthood that Moses hooked his brother Aaron up with... it's that order of priests that only consists of the redeemed... the resurrected.  When he comes, dry bones awaken. 




guest8

  • Guest
Re: Pre-Conception Existence - an intro
« Reply #67 on: June 28, 2021, 09:06:14 am »
Jesus was never a priest on earth. The law dictated that only Levites could become priests.  Jesus was from the tribe of Judah.

Maybe have a closer reading of Heb 7.  I'd venture a guess that most people miss it, but Hebrews points to another priest arising... from this same order of Mechizedek.  It speaks of our Lord (Jesus) who was a descendent not of Aaron (the Levite) but of Judah, and then it says IF ANOTHER priest arises according to the likeness of Mechizedek -who in turn Heb 7:3 says was himself made like the Son of God- a priest perpetually.

Just what would you call His preaching all those years. Yes, He was from the tribe of Judah yet, the Law ended with John the Baptist. As you say, Jesus was/is a priest and King following the order of Mechizedek.

Think it is interesting that Jesus was already a Priest before Mechizedek was born.  Heb 7-3 (KJV)


For it is evident that our Lord was descended from Judah, a tribe with reference to which Moses spoke nothing concerning priests. And this is clearer still, if another priest arises according to the likeness of Melchizedek,  who has become such not on the basis of a law of physical requirement, but according to the power of an indestructible life.  For it is attested of Him,
“YOU ARE A PRIEST FOREVER
ACCORDING TO THE ORDER OF MELCHIZEDEK.”


So Melchizedek was one of these like the Son of God- a priest forever, and Jesus by resurrection became of this same order of Priests, and IF another arises according to this same likeness, this one too would also become one of this same order and a priest forever.

God Ordained Jesus as High Priest: Heb 3:1 (KJV).."Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;"



Scripture, as you mention says that there is a kingdom of heaven where in spirit we are indeed a kingdom and priests that reign upon the earth.  Few understand what this means.  Fewer still can accept it.  And it isn't that corrupt priesthood that Moses hooked his brother Aaron up with... it's that order of priests that only consists of the redeemed... the resurrected.  When he comes, dry bones awaken. 



you said:"When he comes, dry bones awaken, . " 
Another subject for another time.


Yes, we are translated and redeemed to Heaven, yet as already being justified, we are all priest(disciples) of sorts for we spread the WORD of GOD..As you said, we are not part of the priesthood of the Law but different.

I might add:
1 Jo 3:2.."Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is."

Have a safe and productive day, my brother



Blade

guest125

  • Guest
Re: Pre-Conception Existence - an intro
« Reply #68 on: June 28, 2021, 10:55:39 am »
Jesus was never a priest on earth. The law dictated that only Levites could become priests.  Jesus was from the tribe of Judah.

Maybe have a closer reading of Heb 7.  I'd venture a guess that most people miss it, but Hebrews points to another priest arising... from this same order of Mechizedek.  It speaks of our Lord (Jesus) who was a descendent not of Aaron (the Levite) but of Judah, and then it says IF ANOTHER priest arises according to the likeness of Mechizedek -who in turn Heb 7:3 says was himself made like the Son of God- a priest perpetually.

Just what would you call His preaching all those years. Yes, He was from the tribe of Judah yet, the Law ended with John the Baptist. As you say, Jesus was/is a priest and King following the order of Mechizedek.

Think it is interesting that Jesus was already a Priest before Mechizedek was born.  Heb 7-3 (KJV)


For it is evident that our Lord was descended from Judah, a tribe with reference to which Moses spoke nothing concerning priests. And this is clearer still, if another priest arises according to the likeness of Melchizedek,  who has become such not on the basis of a law of physical requirement, but according to the power of an indestructible life.  For it is attested of Him,
“YOU ARE A PRIEST FOREVER
ACCORDING TO THE ORDER OF MELCHIZEDEK.”


So Melchizedek was one of these like the Son of God- a priest forever, and Jesus by resurrection became of this same order of Priests, and IF another arises according to this same likeness, this one too would also become one of this same order and a priest forever.

God Ordained Jesus as High Priest: Heb 3:1 (KJV).."Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;"



Scripture, as you mention says that there is a kingdom of heaven where in spirit we are indeed a kingdom and priests that reign upon the earth.  Few understand what this means.  Fewer still can accept it.  And it isn't that corrupt priesthood that Moses hooked his brother Aaron up with... it's that order of priests that only consists of the redeemed... the resurrected.  When he comes, dry bones awaken. 



you said:"When he comes, dry bones awaken, . " 
Another subject for another time.


Yes, we are translated and redeemed to Heaven, yet as already being justified, we are all priest(disciples) of sorts for we spread the WORD of GOD..As you said, we are not part of the priesthood of the Law but different.

I might add:
1 Jo 3:2.."Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is."

Have a safe and productive day, my brother



Blade

I'm sorry-- I still haven't figured out how to break up a response in sections and use some kind of multi-quote feature...

We likely differ on some aspects here, but to me it matters not.  I don't force agreement on anyone.  I'd be happy to tell you how I read it, if you like.

Hebrews 7:3 isn't speaking about Jesus at all.  Rather, that verse is all about Melchizedek.  In this understanding, Jesus was not "already a priest before Melchizedek was born."  In fact, we know nothing of who this person (Melchizedek) was, neither who his parents were, or anything about him.  His "tribe" is meaningless, as there were no "tribes" yet.  That all came later through the loins of Abraham, his son (of the promise) Issac and then in turn his (younger son who stole his brother's rightful inheritance) Jacob (called Israel, from whom the 12 tribes would descend).

It was Melchizedek who like the Son of God, had no mother or father or genealogy to point to--- in other words, this person we know so little about was the Christ figure incarnate at that time in the person (flesh) of a man named Melchizedek.  There is only one Christ which is of the Spirit, not of flesh.  When this anointing (spirit) descends upon a person (flesh) they are then 'anointed' and become Christ... Immanuel... God with us.  -For a time.

This is of course a controversial idea not accepted, or perhaps not even considered by orthodoxy.  It also happens to be the truth of the matter.  When the Word of God comes to a person they become a mouthpiece, a messenger, a prophet, an apostle-- it doesn't matter what they are called, their "calling" is clear... God says to them- go and they go, speak and they speak His words.  Their words are no longer their own, but they speak the Word of God by the Spirit that is within them.

As for Jesus-- he was born a man.  He was never appointed priest on earth, just as he was never a king "on earth' because his kingdom (of priests) is spiritual, not physical.  He came as a man-- and became an apostle (messenger as Heb 3:1 tells us) and he became a Priest forever in the order of this Melchizedek --- "of the kind" of Melchizedek who lived before Jesus (preceded him).

These thoughts reflect a bit of what Ted talks about, but maybe doesn't fully understand...  The pre-existent one is God- and everything else comes from Him, returns to Him and remains as such- coming and going as He sees fit in obedience and service to Him-- our Father, not as slaves, but as sons--children of God.  Those who don't remain are simply cut off, pruned-- like branches that don't produce fruit, destroyed by fire, consumed.

There's much more that could be said-but that's an intro.   :)

guest58

  • Guest
Re: Pre-Conception Existence - an intro
« Reply #69 on: June 28, 2021, 12:22:15 pm »
These thoughts reflect a bit of what Ted talks about, but maybe doesn't fully understand...  The pre-existent one is God- and everything else comes from Him, returns to Him and remains as such- coming and going as He sees fit in obedience and service to Him-- our Father, not as slaves, but as sons--children of God.  Those who don't remain are simply cut off, pruned-- like branches that don't produce fruit, destroyed by fire, consumed.

This post has been edited to point out that in it  I used nothing from the editor, no bold, no italics, no change of colour or size. This mess was created by the editor on simple text. I feel dismayed, sabotaged and let down...sigh.

Depending on your definition of words I accept a lot this ...

I always refer to our first faith as in YHWH as our GOD and in the Son as our only saviour from all sin. These are  references. I do not say Christ because that is a worldly reference to an anointed one and there are many besides the incarnate Son, Jesus.

I do NOT have a calling to protest niceties of salvation because my calling is to question the dogma about our fall into sin, especially the fall of the elect HIS bride. How are some of the doctrines about our sinfulness NOT blasphemies? How is our sinfulness to be reconciled with our perfect creation in innocence if not in righteousness without impugning GOD by that which is a sin to us.
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guest125

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Re: Pre-Conception Existence - an intro
« Reply #70 on: June 28, 2021, 12:27:19 pm »

Ted-- can you PLEASE just type using ONLY plain text?

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guest58

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Re: Pre-Conception Existence - an intro
« Reply #71 on: June 28, 2021, 12:39:39 pm »

Ted-- can you PLEASE just type using ONLY plain text?


Mr Ed-- can you PLEASE stop accusing me for what is out of my control!!! When I saw my post I edited it...
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patrick jane

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Re: Pre-Conception Existence - an intro
« Reply #72 on: June 28, 2021, 01:21:27 pm »

Ted-- can you PLEASE just type using ONLY plain text?


Mr Ed-- can you PLEASE stop accusing me for what is out of my control!!! When I saw my post I edited it...
I agree Ted, it's not your fault and it bothers me as well. I wish I could fix it.
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guest125

  • Guest
Re: Pre-Conception Existence - an intro
« Reply #73 on: June 28, 2021, 02:41:30 pm »

Ted-- can you PLEASE just type using ONLY plain text?


Mr Ed-- can you PLEASE stop accusing me for what is out of my control!!! When I saw my post I edited it...

What browser are you using?  If you are using Microsoft Edge for example, have you tried accessing using Google Chrome instead?  Or vice versa?  There is something you are doing/using that is not compatible with this platform.

If you are not attempting to change font style, size and color on purpose then I apologize because it appears that you are just tryin' to be all fancy like that and it's messing things up.  More likely is that your browser or computer isn't up to date and it either needs an update, and upgrade or a new way to access (such as a different browser).

Have you tried something other than what you are using?  When you first open your computer each day-- how do you access the Internet?

(trying to help here)

guest131

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Re: Pre-Conception Existence - an intro
« Reply #74 on: June 28, 2021, 06:31:44 pm »
I edited the post hopefully it's fixed...
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guest125

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Re: Pre-Conception Existence - an intro
« Reply #75 on: June 28, 2021, 06:38:23 pm »
I edited the post hopefully it's fixed...

La Shonda-- you are amazing!  Whiz kid!

... how?


guest58

  • Guest
Re: Pre-Conception Existence - an intro
« Reply #76 on: June 28, 2021, 09:06:00 pm »
 To answer
/


I  use Chrome.


i access the internet by logging into my computer.

i have added every update ever offered both for Mac os and Chrome...

guest125

  • Guest
Re: Pre-Conception Existence - an intro
« Reply #77 on: June 28, 2021, 09:52:11 pm »
To answer
/


I  use Chrome.


i access the internet by logging into my computer.

i have added every update ever offered both for Mac os and Chrome...

You must have a virus.  Have you had the vaccine?
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