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Author Topic: Pre-Conception Existence - an intro  (Read 7668 times)

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Mr E

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Re: Pre-Conception Existence - an intro
« Reply #39 on: June 22, 2021, 05:38:22 pm »
I offered you a simple solution regarding the text/font/color difficulties.  Stop doing it.

As it is-- it's undreadable.
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Mr E

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Re: Pre-Conception Existence - an intro
« Reply #40 on: June 22, 2021, 08:28:19 pm »
Maybe it looks different on your browser PJ— here’s how it looks on mine...

he invisible att[/size][size=78%]ributes of HIS dei[/size][/size][size=78%]ty [/size]and power[size=78%] were made visible that is PROVEN, by the creation of the physical universe to all those (whomever they were) who were watching!![/size][size=78%]

[/size][size=78%]Where is there any hint that it was not us who were watching before we were sown into our earthly bodies by either Christ or the devil, [/size][size=78%]Matt 13:36-30[/size][size=78%]? ? There is not one verse in the [/size]bible[size=78%] that says [/size]straight[size=78%] out or even hints obliquely that our pre-conception existence is impossible.[/size][size=78%]

[/size][size=78%][I chose [/size]nothing[size=78%] except bold from the eding menu, not my keyboard - the [/size]editing[size=78%] difficulties are not made by me...so I hope to be left alone about it and that it gets fixed!][/size][size=78%]

Bladerunner

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Re: Pre-Conception Existence - an intro
« Reply #41 on: June 22, 2021, 09:30:47 pm »
Quote
The Pre-Conception Existence (PCE) of the soul / spirit. All spirits created in the image of GOD were created at the same time BEFORE the creation of the physical universe which we all saw, Job 38:7 and Rom 1:20.

Okay- I now understand a little better where you are coming from...  you are equating 'ben elohim' (sons of God) with these spirits who were shouting for joy when God laid the foundations of the earth.

How about the morning stars?  --From that same passage in Job it mentions that 'the morning stars' AND the sons of God were present. If you focus on one, you shouldn't ignore the other.  If the ben elohim sons of God are the spirit beings that later become human beings, what then are the morning stars that were present at the same time-- singing together during the setting of the cornerstone and the measuring out of that foundation of the earth?

Romans 1 says that it was through creation of the world that the invisible became visible.  Do you agree?  The invisible attributes of God became visible through creation.  Don't you think that this would hold true in the forming (within the womb) of man?  The invisible attributes of God become visible.... before I formed you in the womb, I knew you.... invisible/spiritual/united  -then the invisible becomes visible in creation.

Mr. E. I agree with you but also think the problem is those who practice PCE, failure to recognize that God/Jesus  home is not of this dimension.

Their failure to place this universe we know in a different dimension is another problem. There are adequate verses comfirming this.

Thanks for your insight.

Blade
1 Cor 15:3-4.."For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:"

Acts 17:11.."These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so."

Ted T.

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Re: Pre-Conception Existence - an intro
« Reply #42 on: June 23, 2021, 10:53:04 am »
Mr. E. I agree with you but also think the problem is those who practice PCE, failure to recognize that God/Jesus  home is not of this dimension.

Their failure to place this universe we know in a different dimension is another problem. There are adequate verses comfirming this.

Thanks for your insight.

Blade


There is nothing in PCE Theology that disagrees with any other  dimension theories.


This is the first I've heard of this concern and so I ask that you tell me how pce conflicts with your understanding  of other dimensions because as far as I can tell, the multi-dimensional stuff could be an easy answer to both pce and the placement of hell, that is, the outer darkness.
Wheat are NOT reborn / regenerate tares !!!

Matt 13:36-43  ...Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field.

38 the field is the world
good seed are of the kingdom sown by the Son of man
tares are of the wicked one 39 sown by the devil


Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.
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Mr E

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Re: Pre-Conception Existence - an intro
« Reply #43 on: June 23, 2021, 10:58:12 am »
I understand what you are saying Blade.  Ted seems to be trying to reconcile some Calvinist doctrine (which I know you embrace) with his own ideas that he's calling PCE.  I don't think it's a widely held theology, at least I haven't run across what you might call PCE churches in my travelings.

As far as Jesus goes, 'this dimension' certainly was his home for at least a time, before returning to the Father's house and the place that had been prepared for him.  I do give Ted credit for the effort, but he's gonna get stuck quickly unless he's willing to consider some other angles.  Whenever I hear someone tell me that they've held this or that position for some forty years, naturally a red flag goes up.  If you don't know anything more today than you knew 40 years ago, it's unlikely you'll accept anything new.

Mr E

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Re: Pre-Conception Existence - an intro
« Reply #44 on: June 23, 2021, 11:01:31 am »
Mr. E. I agree with you but also think the problem is those who practice PCE, failure to recognize that God/Jesus  home is not of this dimension.

Their failure to place this universe we know in a different dimension is another problem. There are adequate verses comfirming this.

Thanks for your insight.

Blade


There is nothing in PCE Theology that disagrees with any other  dimension theories.


This is the first I've heard of this concern and so I ask that you tell me how pce conflicts with your understanding  of other dimensions because as far as I can tell, the multi-dimensional stuff could be an easy answer to both pce and the placement of hell, that is, the outer darkness.

Hi Ted-

Where did you first hear of PCE theory.  Who introduced it to you, and how?
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Ted T.

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Re: Pre-Conception Existence - an intro
« Reply #45 on: June 23, 2021, 11:13:11 am »
In reply 35:
Quote from: Mr E
rYou wrote:
Slow down there Sparky.  One thing at a time.  Also-- it would help (since you are having technical difficulties) if you would just forgo trying to use the font features and colors and such.  It's making your posts almost unreadable.  Maybe just simplify things and perhaps limit yourself to bolding words or using italics for emphasis.  Keep it clean Ted.
which I found condescending and hostile.


In my post i told you that I used only bold, not even italics and I DID NOT CHANGE SIZES OF ANYTHING but you persist in this red herring.


If you can't help, please quit hassling me. I've used the report feature to report this to management but no reply so far.


All the size changes in this paragraph of mine i copied were chosen by the editor, not me so I mentioned I had followed your advice explicitly which you also seem to have ignored.

Quote
[size=78%][I chose [/size]nothing[size=78%] except bold from the eding menu, not my keyboard - the [/size]editing[size=78%] difficulties are not made by me...so I hope to be left alone about it and that it gets fixed!][/size]
[size=78%]


If you want to be helpful then please will you report this problem to the management..
[/size]
« Last Edit: June 23, 2021, 11:15:37 am by Ted T. »
Wheat are NOT reborn / regenerate tares !!!

Matt 13:36-43  ...Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field.

38 the field is the world
good seed are of the kingdom sown by the Son of man
tares are of the wicked one 39 sown by the devil


Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

patrick jane

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Re: Pre-Conception Existence - an intro
« Reply #46 on: June 23, 2021, 11:22:17 am »
Maybe it looks different on your browser PJ— here’s how it looks on mine...

he invisible att[/size][size=78%]ributes of HIS dei[/size][/size][size=78%]ty [/size]and power[size=78%] were made visible that is PROVEN, by the creation of the physical universe to all those (whomever they were) who were watching!![/size][size=78%]

[/size][size=78%]Where is there any hint that it was not us who were watching before we were sown into our earthly bodies by either Christ or the devil, [/size][size=78%]Matt 13:36-30[/size][size=78%]? ? There is not one verse in the [/size]bible[size=78%] that says [/size]straight[size=78%] out or even hints obliquely that our pre-conception existence is impossible.[/size][size=78%]

[/size][size=78%][I chose [/size]nothing[size=78%] except bold from the eding menu, not my keyboard - the [/size]editing[size=78%] difficulties are not made by me...so I hope to be left alone about it and that it gets fixed!][/size][size=78%]
I don't know how or why this is happening. I can try reporting this to the forum company if they can do anything.
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Ted T.

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Re: Pre-Conception Existence - an intro
« Reply #47 on: June 23, 2021, 11:45:15 am »

Hi Ted-

Where did you first hear of PCE theory.  Who introduced it to you, and how?


It was in the mid 70s in a home bible study group. I learned the basic concepts and got the list of verses.  I did not stop with the cursory verse interpretations that are so well covered by the commentaries but t[size=78%]hen I spent three years in personal bible study 3-4 hours a day, reading the whole bible three times as I [/size][/size][size=78%]worked prayerfully through all three dozen plus verses, how they relate to each other and [/size][/size]what that implied about realty[/size][size=78%] within the fulness of scripture.[/size]
[/size]
 After that I got the word in the Spirit to quit studying and get a life!  :)
Wheat are NOT reborn / regenerate tares !!!

Matt 13:36-43  ...Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field.

38 the field is the world
good seed are of the kingdom sown by the Son of man
tares are of the wicked one 39 sown by the devil


Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

Ted T.

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Re: Pre-Conception Existence - an intro
« Reply #48 on: June 23, 2021, 12:20:45 pm »
  Whenever I hear someone tell me that they've held this or that position for some forty years, naturally a red flag goes up.  If you don't know anything more today than you knew 40 years ago, it's unlikely you'll accept anything new.
New?  What new doctrine are you trying to teach me??? I haven't seen it yet so, ummmm. . .


You don't know me well enough for this yet. I did not tell the whole story because you scolded me for dumping too much into one post.


8 or 9 years ago I started to engage people on Christian forums. The atheists worked me over pretty good, forcing me to seek the Spirit on the best probable understanding of reality that they could understand even if they could not accept it. This understanding I bounced off the Christian community and of course hit the stone wall of long held traditions and orthodox belief held for hundreds of years, not just 40.


The pot is speaking out of turn, as my understanding has deepened greatly from the Christian input over these last 8 years.



Wheat are NOT reborn / regenerate tares !!!

Matt 13:36-43  ...Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field.

38 the field is the world
good seed are of the kingdom sown by the Son of man
tares are of the wicked one 39 sown by the devil


Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.
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Bladerunner

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Re: Pre-Conception Existence - an intro
« Reply #49 on: June 23, 2021, 08:23:04 pm »
  Whenever I hear someone tell me that they've held this or that position for some forty years, naturally a red flag goes up.  If you don't know anything more today than you knew 40 years ago, it's unlikely you'll accept anything new.
New?  What new doctrine are you trying to teach me??? I haven't seen it yet so, ummmm. . .


You don't know me well enough for this yet. I did not tell the whole story because you scolded me for dumping too much into one post.


8 or 9 years ago I started to engage people on Christian forums. The atheists worked me over pretty good, forcing me to seek the Spirit on the best probable understanding of reality that they could understand even if they could not accept it. This understanding I bounced off the Christian community and of course hit the stone wall of long held traditions and orthodox belief held for hundreds of years, not just 40.


The pot is speaking out of turn, as my understanding has deepened greatly from the Christian input over these last 8 years.

May I step in?

I had my dealing with Atheist as well. For a couple of years, I debate them about the Bible. I concluded, they study hard and listen to those before them for the information needed to literally sluff off God's Word as nothing. It is difficult but one cannot change from the authority of the Word of GOD....They either hear it or they do not. That part is up to GOD and GOD alone. we can only give the message that Jesus gave us to give them.

I have looked into the PCE Theology and have come to the conclusion that there are many places where the Word of GOD must be removed, changed or in some cases Added to make this Theology work.

The Bible is one integrated WORD consisting of 66 chapters written by 40 writers over a period of 1500 years and author only one---GOD>

Thank for letting me put my two cents worth in.

Blade
1 Cor 15:3-4.."For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:"

Acts 17:11.."These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so."
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Ted T.

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Re: Pre-Conception Existence - an intro
« Reply #50 on: June 24, 2021, 11:35:13 am »
I have looked into the PCE Theology and have come to the conclusion that there are many places where the Word of GOD must be removed, changed or in some cases Added to make this Theology work.

Blade


It is my conclusion that PCE is truer to the actual words of scripture than the orthodolgically changed words, changed for eisegetical reasons with examples as this last few day posting contains one or two. Did discussion arise over them? Was I challenged over my use of the words all the sons of GOD as written and not angels given by interpretation in Job 38:7


What is different in PCE is the interpretation of the meaning of the words, and their intent.
Wheat are NOT reborn / regenerate tares !!!

Matt 13:36-43  ...Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field.

38 the field is the world
good seed are of the kingdom sown by the Son of man
tares are of the wicked one 39 sown by the devil


Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.
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Mr E

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Re: Pre-Conception Existence - an intro
« Reply #51 on: June 24, 2021, 03:16:02 pm »
  Whenever I hear someone tell me that they've held this or that position for some forty years, naturally a red flag goes up.  If you don't know anything more today than you knew 40 years ago, it's unlikely you'll accept anything new.
New?  What new doctrine are you trying to teach me??? I haven't seen it yet so, ummmm. . .


You don't know me well enough for this yet. I did not tell the whole story because you scolded me for dumping too much into one post.


8 or 9 years ago I started to engage people on Christian forums. The atheists worked me over pretty good, forcing me to seek the Spirit on the best probable understanding of reality that they could understand even if they could not accept it. This understanding I bounced off the Christian community and of course hit the stone wall of long held traditions and orthodox belief held for hundreds of years, not just 40.


The pot is speaking out of turn, as my understanding has deepened greatly from the Christian input over these last 8 years.

Ted, you are right in saying we don't know each other well.  - And I happen to agree with your experience concerning Christians who think all of their own ideas are settled science... ahem... theology.  Most often with all kinds of scriptures to "imply" things that they insist are stated.  So I do understand both your frustration and reluctance or hesitation to engage folks.  You'll find me more likely to listen than some.  I actually think you are kind of on the right track, by degrees. 
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