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Author Topic: Miscellaneous verse Misfits the First:  (Read 469 times)

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Ted T.

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Miscellaneous verse Misfits the First:
« on: September 07, 2019, 03:11:29 pm »
      MISFITS, the first.[1]( blue indicates footnote)
Well, just about last, and quite possibly least, there are a few verses that just do not seem to fit very well into any category, exceptional or otherwise! (Imagine, they are just like the elect! There always seems to be a few on the perimeter, although these days there seems to be quite a few. But hooray for Christian pre-conception existence theology; it even has a place for the misfits, howbeit, on the Earth, somewhat near the end!)


Genesis 3:21 For Adam also and for his wife did the LORD GOD make coats of skin, and clothed them. In this type[2] there are four things.

First is the fig leaves of Genesis 3:7b… and they sewed fig leaves together…
Second is the aprons of 3:7c -… and made themselves aprons.
Third is the shed blood (which is not mentioned, but you do not obtain animal skins without shedding some blood).
Fourth is the skin coats of 3:21.


Thus we have four separate things being combined in two ways, to wit: the fig leaf - aprons, and the blood - skin coats. To understand the spiritual truth conveyed in this type, we must first understand what the two dualities or combinations represent. Therefore, let's take a look to see what these things represent in the spiritual realms.

The first combination is the fig leaf - aprons. May I suggest that these represent Adam and Eve's attempt to be reconciled with GOD, ie, their attempt to escape the penalty for being naked and disobedient (disfellowship and impending death), that is, their attempt to be where they were before they were (bad) naked and disobedient, ie, to have true peace with GOD again.


In other words, the fig leaf - aprons would represent the way for them to become righteous again (so far as being naked and this command are concerned), and holy (no longer willing to accept the serpent as a good person) if they would have worked. However because they did not work, they must represent all false or counterfeit ways of becoming righteous and holy.[3] In other words, they symbolise a counterfeit Christianity.[4] Second comes the blood and coats of skin. May I suggest that these represent GOD's provision for their reconciliation with HIM (which we will look into a little deeper in a moment).



The next thing I'd like to examine is the reason(s) why the fig leaf - aprons did not work. Why was GOD not satisfied with this covering of their nakedness? Why were they still the same as being naked in HIS sight? Well I believe that they did not work because they failed to stop that which was out to kill them (which Adam and Eve had set in motion by eating the fruit). Now they were not going to die because the fruit was poisonous. The fruit itself was good on three counts. The reason they were going to die was because of the poisonousness of the act of eating, that is, the poisonousness of the act of disobeying GOD.[5]


Hence, we can see that what they had done wrong is that they had set aside GOD's purpose for them and were doing something else instead. (All by mistake, of course!) Now this is a very grave situation indeed, even worse than eating poison.[6] Hence, we can see that what was out to get them was GOD's justice and holiness, that is, the retributive and exilic demands of these two attributes. Hence we can see that the fig leaf - aprons did not work:

first, because nothing had borne the wrath of GOD [ripping leaves off fig trees does not satisfy GOD's wrath (justice) nor does self-imposed suffering[7], that is, the religion of man - Adam.]
Second, they did not work because Adam and Eve were still not willing to fulfil GOD's purpose for them, that is, GOD's purpose for them was not that they should be “dressed in fig leaves". He wanted them to be clothed with something else.[8] Thus the fig leaf - aprons failed to satisfy both HIS justice and HIS holiness.
The third thing we need to examine is the two aspects of the blood - coats that worked.
The first aspect is that GOD judged (killed) some animal(s) on their behalf, that is, instead of them. Thus HIS justice “was satisfied” because something else had borne the retribution for them. The second aspect is that GOD clothed them with the skins of the slain animal(s). This covering fitted HIS purpose for them.[9] It was the kind of clothes HE wanted them to wear.


I hope that you can see that this little episode constitutes a good example on how to get back together with GOD to the extent of “getting back into HIS garden in peace”. The shed blood typifies the sacrifice of Jesus that can satisfy GOD's justice and justify us. (The holy elect are now and forever righteous by this free gift from GOD.) The putting on and wearing of the coats which satisfied GOD's holiness, typifies the putting on (permanently) of the new person created in righteousness and holiness (justified by Jesus' sacrifice and permanently separated in spirit from GOD's enemies, that is, willing to judge them, that is, faithful in GOD's sight as per Ephesians 4:24, 5:27[10]).


Now, it is of the utmost importance to make the distinction between the blood and the coats, that is, you must realise that HE did not cover their nakedness by the shed blood of the animal(s), that is, through the shedding of the blood that can justify. Rather, it was the putting on and wearing of the skin coats that covered their nakedness, that is, that brought them back into a peaceful relationship with GOD. In other words, they were not forgiven until they had put on the coats.

Therefore, we should be able to see that although the shedding of the blood was involved with and a necessary prerequisite to their being covered,[11] the foremost or most vital aspect was the putting on of the coats. For example, 3:21 says absolutely nothing about the sacrificial death(s). In other words, even though the blood has been shed, the Church still can not get back into the garden (past the judgement) until it has put on the coats, that is, until we all put on the person created in holiness, that is, until we all become holy, which is much different than believing in the blood (realising that Jesus died for our sin).[12]

Now this would all be quite easy to understand except for the fact that there are these other interpretations that say that all you need to be saved, reborn, forgiven, redeemed, adopted, whisked away to Paradise when you die, granted eternal life, made righteous, made holy, made perfect, resurrected, etc, is to be covered by a belief in the shed blood. In other words, you do not have to be holy to have any of these things. Holiness is just an added extra, it does not matter when you pick it up. Take your time. (Fig leaves are still in fashion!!!!)


Well in spite of the ever increasing mound of Biblical Scholarship, it is not too hard to understand if one keeps in mind that there are two different aspects to having peace with GOD, to wit: the blood and the coats, that is, not just the fact of the shed blood and the acceptance or belief in that fact, but two different facts.


The blood is a free gift to the holy elect (that is, to those whose faith is unto holiness). GOD does all this work. There is nothing you can do to merit being justified, that is, to merit escaping GOD's wrath, the penalty due for your sin. It is done, complete, finished. You are righteous[13]: just as righteous as GOD, just as righteous as if you had never sinned, and just as righteous as you will ever be. GOD's justice has absolutely no claim in your regard.


Now, the situation is not the same for the coats. Christ's sacrifice does not make you holy, that is, willing to judge HIS enemies. No indeed! That is something you have to do. It is a work,[14] a very hard work, a work you are not willing to do for if you were, you would not be here![15] Furthermore, without this work, your faith (justification) means nothing,[16] that is, you are still kept out of Eden, you still do not have true peace with GOD,[17] you are still not forgiven, redeemed, reborn, adopted, for if HE held HIS judgement, you too would be judged on account of your abiding unity with HIS enemies.


But, on account of GOD's election of some, HE will never hold HIS judgement until all the elect become holy.[18] To say it another way, if you are not holy at the time of HIS judgement, it will not matter how much faith you have, you will not be forgiven, you will be condemned (Matthew 7:21, 22:11).[19] In other words, without holiness we are in the position Adam and Eve were in just after GOD had killed the animal(s), but before they had put on the skin coats, that is, standing there with their fig leaves on, believing in the blood, thankful as can be,[20] but naked as new born babes in GOD's sight.


To put in NT terms, we are in the same position as the Laodiceans of Revelation 3:17 Knowest not that thou are wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked? Here Jesus again uses the examples of nakedness and blindness to show the Church its needs,[21] but He is doing this after His sacrifice had been made and they had been converted.[22]

This means that the “needed” things or emphasis was entirely upon their need for holiness in order that they could be right with Him, for they no longer needed that GOD should make a sacrifice to justify them. What they needed was to put on the coats, the new man in Christ, in order that they could truly have peace with Him. As Jesus said in Revelation 3:17-20 I counsel thee to buy of Me gold tried in the fire, (unadulterated or holy faith), that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed (symbolic of purification unto holiness) and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear (to all the covered, you are stopping My judgement); and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see (that MY enemies are irrevocable in their choice to be evil, you must become holy). As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten; be zealous, therefore, and repent (of your unholiness). Behold, I stand at (outside) the door (of the heart of this kind of Christian); and knock (seek acceptance of My holy word). If any man hear My voice, and open the door (come into unity with My holiness); I will come into him, and will sup with him (commune intimately, you will no longer be alone), and he with Me.

So then, when it comes to being saved from GOD's wrath and having peace with HIM, there is nothing you can do and there is something you must do.[23] There is nothing you can do because your saving sacrifice must be wrought by GOD. There is something you must do because you must put on the coat (white raiment), that is, become holy, that is, become willing to judge HIS enemies, that is, open the door to HIM and let HIM in, that is, be adopted, that is, repent, at least of your unholiness. In other words, the mere belief in HIS saving sacrifice gets you no closer to GOD's kingdom than you are right now. Until you repent and open up (believe) to the extent of being holy, you are just putting in correctional time, either down here or in the worlds of the dead. We were “put out” for not being holy and we will not get back in until we are holy, even though the blood has been shed.


In other words, without holiness we just stay in the exilic state we have been in for the last ~6000 years, and Jesus will not clean up this place (hold His judgement), until it fulfils the purpose HE created it to do, that is, to bring everyone of the elect unto repentance and faith unto holiness, and when it does, then we will get to live in the Promised Land in peace.[24]



Job 10:9 Remember, I beseech THEE, that THOU hast made me as the clay; and wilt THOU bring me into dust again? Me in this Scripture refers primarily to Job's spirit, rather than to his body. This is shown by verses 11 and 12: THOU hast clothed me with skin and flesh, and hast fenced me with bones and sinews. THOU hast granted me life and favour, ... Therefore, we can read the second part of verse 9 as saying, Wilt THOU bring my spirit into dust again?



Now, what does it mean by the word “dust”? Well, dust was the state of Adam's body before it was created, as in Genesis 3:19...till thou return unto the ground: for out of it wast thou taken, for dust thou art and unto dust thou shalt return.[25] In this verse, we can see that the second “dust” means the state of the body before it was created or given life. Therefore when Job speaks of his spirit being brought to dust, I think it means that state which the spirit was in before it was given life. (This interpretation is also attested to by Ecclesiastes 12:7, and Genesis 4:10, wherein Abel's voice spoke in death, from the “ground”.) The fact that Job describes this “dust” state as an “again” further connotes the pre-conception existence of the spirit. This interpretation also opens up new possibilities for 10:13a And these things hast THOU hid in THINE heart: Might Job's author be indicating that he knew that these things (our pre-conception existence and incarnation) had to remain hidden from general knowledge? Looks like it to me.







Job 38:4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding. Well now, this is a pretty straight forward question, and it seems that, in GOD's view, if Job understands what it is all about, Job must also know of his whereabouts at the time when GOD laid the foundations of the Earth. This implies that Job was somewhere when GOD created the Earth, right? Of course, it can't mean that because we all know (have understanding) that we did not exist then, so it has got to mean something else, anything else.


Of course, if it means something else, then this becomes a pretty stupid question. Like, why don't you go around for a day and ask all your friends at work where they were when they didn't exist yet? Just how many of them would walk away convicted of their inferiority to you regarding the right way to go about living life (which is what GOD was trying to show Job by asking him this question)? Well, no doubt some of you fancy dancers[26] will still want to cling to the security of the traditional interpretation. Okay but, that is the most insecure way to go. That's not the rock that will withstand the next flood. Trouble is, you'll probably never believe me until it's proven to you, right? So, read on! We’re not finished yet.




The Wisdom of Solomon 8:20(NEB) As a child, I was born to excellence and a noble soul fell to my lot; or rather, I myself was noble, and I entered into an unblemished body ......
(JB) I was a boy of happy disposition. I had received a good soul as my lot, or that, being good, I had entered an undefiled body. Whoever this author was, he certainly was rather pro pre-conception existence.


The words, “as my lot” are very interesting too. It seems that he viewed the blessings of his incarnation as a reward from GOD.[27] This then has a bearing on the doctrine of rewards, for it is an obvious question that if our entire life is in GOD's hands and if every bit of goodness that comes forth in our life has its source in GOD's prevenient[28] grace, just how can we be rewarded for that which we have received from GOD?[29] Should it not be GOD who gets the rewards? Only if we throw pre-conception works on to the scale, as Solomon seems to in this verse, do we then come up with a reasonable basis for the doctrine of rewards, that is, for the fact that some receive much more grace in their life than others. In other words, this life and all the grace that is encapsulated in it, is somewhat linked to our pre-conception works.

The Wisdom of Solomon 10:1(JB)...the father of the world, the first being to be fashioned, created alone. Since we can tell that this author believed in pre-conception theology from Wisdom 8:20(see the preceding argument) should we not interpret his choice of words in this verse in light of that presupposition (presupposing that he is translated correctly, which is not always a good presupposition to make). If we take the author's pre-existence views into account, then we have a pre-existent spiritual being (a personal being, hence, a person) who was later fashioned into a living being (oft times called a human being). In addition to this witness to this being's pre-fashioning existence, the verse also infers that this being was but the first in a long line of persons that were so fashioned. It also seems that Solomon (or whoever) had twigged on the spiritual meaning of alone. Of course, the wisest guy should know some theological secrets that hardly anyone else knows, should he not?

 
 
 ---------------------------------------------------------
Notes for Misfits, the first
1 - Otherwise known as the uncategory.


2 - This is a very important type (example) and I am afraid that very many people have not fully understood it. Therefore, because it is so important and so misunderstood, I would like to add my say to the already large pile of Biblical Scholarship. In other words, since our theologians have erred in their diagnosis of the cause of our problems with GOD, perhaps we should take another look at the solution GOD gave us in Genesis, because they probably made some mistakes there too, being that these things are so intimately related. In other words, this is not a verse that gives direct proof that we existed before our conception but rather, it shows that the Scriptures say that the most important aspect of having “peace with GOD again in Eden” is our becoming holy, which fact exactly matches pre-conception existence theology.


3 - Ie, of getting back to Eden.


4 - Otherwise known as unsaving faith. Checked lately to see what material your raiment (wedding garment) is made of? Or didn't you know that fig leaves are now being marketed under the brand name “Whiter than white linen"? Checked to see if it is clean and well pressed, as per Ephesians 5:27?


5 - Hence, the poisonousness of being unholy, since that is why they disobeyed.Back:


6 - If you do not recognise the gravity of the situation, please refer back to the WAGES OF SIN, about page 16 in THY WILL BE DONE.


7 - See Genesis note 33 on fig leaves.


8 - Most likely in the willingness to judge and be separate from HIS enemies, that is, in
faith unto holiness at least. It is not explicit in the Scriptures, but from the general drift of Genesis 3:7-14, it seems that they were very close to the serpent when GOD found
them. Was it just ironic coincidence, or could it be that they went to the serpent for help to hide? Perhaps they were just mysteriously drawn to his presence?


9 - Most likely because it symbolised believing in GOD to the degree of being willing to not ever eat of the forbidden fruit anymore, that is, of not ever listening to the serpent anymore, that is, it symbolised their being holy.


10 - Ephesians 4:24 and 5:27 And that ye put on the new man, which after GOD is created in righteousness and true holiness. / That He might present it to Himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish (in this regard at least).


11 - That is, being forgiven, made righteous, made holy, at peace with GOD.


12 - As Jesus warned (the latter day Church) in Luke 17:21 Remember Lot's wife. She had to look back to her family and friends. I guess she did not like what she saw, that is, she did not think that GOD was right to hurt them that much, that is, she suddenly became unholy! Hence, she was judged with them. And just how many other  Christians are like Mrs. Disobedient Unholy Lot? Lots right? (Hence, we may get the great falling away of 2 Thessalonians 2:3.)


13 - If you have the holiness coat on.


14 - Much to M. Luther and everyone else's dismay!


15 - There is a possible exception here but it's very expensive. Maybe I’ll tell you about it next year.


16 - As per James 2:20. And please take note of his example of saving faith in action in verse 21.


17 - Although you might be convinced, somewhat akin to the Laodicean delusion of Revelation 3:17, that you do have peace with GOD. Of the seven Churches, I believe that this is the one that has the most members.


18 - Which event He may bring to pass in just a few short years, so don't go too slow on it.


19 - Matthew 7:21, 22:11 Not every one that saith unto Me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven, but he that doeth the will of My Father… / … and the wedding was furnished with guests. And when the king came in to see the guests, He saw there a man who had not on a wedding garment. … and (He said you) cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. How are you going to do when he starts weeping “in repentance”? Are you still going to do the will of the Father who wants you to throw him out?


20 - And maybe even getting religious about it.


21 - I believe He was alluding to this very situation in Genesis when they were expelled from the garden when they were no longer naked. They had their skin coats on! There is a big difference between conversion and adoption. Sometimes they happen at the same time, but usually they take place many years apart (just like there is a big difference between getting out of Egypt and getting into the Promised Land, or between falling in love and getting married, ie, being adopted into your partner's family).


23 - Otherwise known as the faith and works dilemma. Saving faith brings forth certain works, or repentance to a certain degree, that is, you will stop doing most of your sins, but you will not stop completely, that is, become perfect. Some of these sins are listed in the NT, to wit: fornication, stealing, lying, etc (see 1 Corinthians 5:11, 6:9; Galatians 5:19; Ephesians 5:3; Colossians 3:5 and Revelation 21:8). Well, in addition to all such evils, I hope that you can now see that you can not have saving faith and still be unholy, as per James 4:4...know ye not that the friendship of the world (any member, even if it is your infant child, Matthew 10:37) is enmity with GOD. In other words, the angels will get you out of Sodom, but you can not disobey, that is, look back, even if your family and friends are back there screaming, wailing, howling, and being roasted alive in GOD’s judgement.


24 - This very same example is reiterated in both Testaments too. In the OT, we have blood of the Passover (Paschal) Lamb, as well as its body, with the bitter herbs and holiness, that is, the willingness to leave Egypt immediately, and one was not covered by the blood unless one was willing to fulfil these other requirements as well. In the NT, we have the broken Loaf and the Wine, and the blood does not cover one unless one is also willing to partake of it and of the Loaf. And I believe that it is correct to say that one must be willing to eat and drink all of it, that there can not be any of it left over (out) because that is sin. (It seems to me that if one is going to believe in the transubstantiation of the bread and wine, one must also believe the same about the flesh of the paschal lamb and the sin offering.)



25 - It is also interesting to note that in Genesis 3:19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground, for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return., in the first description of death in the Bible, the word return plays a prominent part. It seems that Scripture begins by preferring to view death as a return, rather than as a new experience.


26 - There was a song in the seventies by Cat Stevens that had a verse that went like this:
I know a lot of fancy dancers,
people who can glide you on a floor.
They move so smooth, but have no answers when you ask,
why did you come here for?


27 - The lot being the divine way of dividing things up for us. There is no such thing as “chance” with GOD.


28 - Prevenient: grace which disposes the heart of man to seek GOD as per John 6:44 No man come to Me, except the Father which hath sent Me draw him…


29 - If you are one of those who holds that we get rewarded for our degree of cooperation with the grace of GOD, then you must also believe that we all get the same amount of grace in this life and that it's not so effectual in some as it is in others. To my mind, one problem with this idea is, just how many people do you know that have seen what Paul and Moses saw, as many times as they saw it, and how many do you know who have gone up to heaven? Another problem is that this kind of GOD just seems to get weaker and weaker as time passes and things become more and more evil, whereas with different degrees of GOD's grace, grace seems to increase as times become darker and darker, that is, as our need becomes greater and greater. (This book being an excellent example.  For some of us who were in on what God was doing, things have been getting brighter and brighter.) As for proof that we receive different degrees of grace in this life, I would submit Luke 12:48 For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required.
 
 
 

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Bladerunner

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Re: Miscellaneous verse Misfits the First:
« Reply #1 on: September 12, 2019, 10:01:35 pm »
      MISFITS, the first.[1]( blue indicates footnote)
Well, just about last, and quite possibly least, there are a few verses that just do not seem to fit very well into any category, exceptional or otherwise! (Imagine, they are just like the elect! There always seems to be a few on the perimeter, although these days there seems to be quite a few. But hooray for Christian pre-conception existence theology; it even has a place for the misfits, howbeit, on the Earth, somewhat near the end!)


Genesis 3:21 For Adam also and for his wife did the LORD GOD make coats of skin, and clothed them. In this type[2] there are four things.

First is the fig leaves of Genesis 3:7b… and they sewed fig leaves together…
Second is the aprons of 3:7c -… and made themselves aprons.
Third is the shed blood (which is not mentioned, but you do not obtain animal skins without shedding some blood).
Fourth is the skin coats of 3:21.


Thus we have four separate things being combined in two ways, to wit: the fig leaf - aprons, and the blood - skin coats. To understand the spiritual truth conveyed in this type, we must first understand what the two dualities or combinations represent. Therefore, let's take a look to see what these things represent in the spiritual realms.

The first combination is the fig leaf - aprons. May I suggest that these represent Adam and Eve's attempt to be reconciled with GOD, ie, their attempt to escape the penalty for being naked and disobedient (disfellowship and impending death), that is, their attempt to be where they were before they were (bad) naked and disobedient, ie, to have true peace with GOD again.


In other words, the fig leaf - aprons would represent the way for them to become righteous again (so far as being naked and this command are concerned), and holy (no longer willing to accept the serpent as a good person) if they would have worked. However because they did not work, they must represent all false or counterfeit ways of becoming righteous and holy.[3] In other words, they symbolise a counterfeit Christianity.[4] Second comes the blood and coats of skin. May I suggest that these represent GOD's provision for their reconciliation with HIM (which we will look into a little deeper in a moment).



The next thing I'd like to examine is the reason(s) why the fig leaf - aprons did not work. Why was GOD not satisfied with this covering of their nakedness? Why were they still the same as being naked in HIS sight? Well I believe that they did not work because they failed to stop that which was out to kill them (which Adam and Eve had set in motion by eating the fruit). Now they were not going to die because the fruit was poisonous. The fruit itself was good on three counts. The reason they were going to die was because of the poisonousness of the act of eating, that is, the poisonousness of the act of disobeying GOD.[5]


Hence, we can see that what they had done wrong is that they had set aside GOD's purpose for them and were doing something else instead. (All by mistake, of course!) Now this is a very grave situation indeed, even worse than eating poison.[6] Hence, we can see that what was out to get them was GOD's justice and holiness, that is, the retributive and exilic demands of these two attributes. Hence we can see that the fig leaf - aprons did not work:

first, because nothing had borne the wrath of GOD [ripping leaves off fig trees does not satisfy GOD's wrath (justice) nor does self-imposed suffering[7], that is, the religion of man - Adam.]
Second, they did not work because Adam and Eve were still not willing to fulfil GOD's purpose for them, that is, GOD's purpose for them was not that they should be “dressed in fig leaves". He wanted them to be clothed with something else.[8] Thus the fig leaf - aprons failed to satisfy both HIS justice and HIS holiness.
The third thing we need to examine is the two aspects of the blood - coats that worked.
The first aspect is that GOD judged (killed) some animal(s) on their behalf, that is, instead of them. Thus HIS justice “was satisfied” because something else had borne the retribution for them. The second aspect is that GOD clothed them with the skins of the slain animal(s). This covering fitted HIS purpose for them.[9] It was the kind of clothes HE wanted them to wear.


I hope that you can see that this little episode constitutes a good example on how to get back together with GOD to the extent of “getting back into HIS garden in peace”. The shed blood typifies the sacrifice of Jesus that can satisfy GOD's justice and justify us. (The holy elect are now and forever righteous by this free gift from GOD.) The putting on and wearing of the coats which satisfied GOD's holiness, typifies the putting on (permanently) of the new person created in righteousness and holiness (justified by Jesus' sacrifice and permanently separated in spirit from GOD's enemies, that is, willing to judge them, that is, faithful in GOD's sight as per Ephesians 4:24, 5:27[10]).


Now, it is of the utmost importance to make the distinction between the blood and the coats, that is, you must realise that HE did not cover their nakedness by the shed blood of the animal(s), that is, through the shedding of the blood that can justify. Rather, it was the putting on and wearing of the skin coats that covered their nakedness, that is, that brought them back into a peaceful relationship with GOD. In other words, they were not forgiven until they had put on the coats.

Therefore, we should be able to see that although the shedding of the blood was involved with and a necessary prerequisite to their being covered,[11] the foremost or most vital aspect was the putting on of the coats. For example, 3:21 says absolutely nothing about the sacrificial death(s). In other words, even though the blood has been shed, the Church still can not get back into the garden (past the judgement) until it has put on the coats, that is, until we all put on the person created in holiness, that is, until we all become holy, which is much different than believing in the blood (realising that Jesus died for our sin).[12]

Now this would all be quite easy to understand except for the fact that there are these other interpretations that say that all you need to be saved, reborn, forgiven, redeemed, adopted, whisked away to Paradise when you die, granted eternal life, made righteous, made holy, made perfect, resurrected, etc, is to be covered by a belief in the shed blood. In other words, you do not have to be holy to have any of these things. Holiness is just an added extra, it does not matter when you pick it up. Take your time. (Fig leaves are still in fashion!!!!)


Well in spite of the ever increasing mound of Biblical Scholarship, it is not too hard to understand if one keeps in mind that there are two different aspects to having peace with GOD, to wit: the blood and the coats, that is, not just the fact of the shed blood and the acceptance or belief in that fact, but two different facts.


The blood is a free gift to the holy elect (that is, to those whose faith is unto holiness). GOD does all this work. There is nothing you can do to merit being justified, that is, to merit escaping GOD's wrath, the penalty due for your sin. It is done, complete, finished. You are righteous[13]: just as righteous as GOD, just as righteous as if you had never sinned, and just as righteous as you will ever be. GOD's justice has absolutely no claim in your regard.


Now, the situation is not the same for the coats. Christ's sacrifice does not make you holy, that is, willing to judge HIS enemies. No indeed! That is something you have to do. It is a work,[14] a very hard work, a work you are not willing to do for if you were, you would not be here![15] Furthermore, without this work, your faith (justification) means nothing,[16] that is, you are still kept out of Eden, you still do not have true peace with GOD,[17] you are still not forgiven, redeemed, reborn, adopted, for if HE held HIS judgement, you too would be judged on account of your abiding unity with HIS enemies.


But, on account of GOD's election of some, HE will never hold HIS judgement until all the elect become holy.[18] To say it another way, if you are not holy at the time of HIS judgement, it will not matter how much faith you have, you will not be forgiven, you will be condemned (Matthew 7:21, 22:11).[19] In other words, without holiness we are in the position Adam and Eve were in just after GOD had killed the animal(s), but before they had put on the skin coats, that is, standing there with their fig leaves on, believing in the blood, thankful as can be,[20] but naked as new born babes in GOD's sight.


To put in NT terms, we are in the same position as the Laodiceans of Revelation 3:17 Knowest not that thou are wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked? Here Jesus again uses the examples of nakedness and blindness to show the Church its needs,[21] but He is doing this after His sacrifice had been made and they had been converted.[22]

This means that the “needed” things or emphasis was entirely upon their need for holiness in order that they could be right with Him, for they no longer needed that GOD should make a sacrifice to justify them. What they needed was to put on the coats, the new man in Christ, in order that they could truly have peace with Him. As Jesus said in Revelation 3:17-20 I counsel thee to buy of Me gold tried in the fire, (unadulterated or holy faith), that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed (symbolic of purification unto holiness) and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear (to all the covered, you are stopping My judgement); and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see (that MY enemies are irrevocable in their choice to be evil, you must become holy). As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten; be zealous, therefore, and repent (of your unholiness). Behold, I stand at (outside) the door (of the heart of this kind of Christian); and knock (seek acceptance of My holy word). If any man hear My voice, and open the door (come into unity with My holiness); I will come into him, and will sup with him (commune intimately, you will no longer be alone), and he with Me.

So then, when it comes to being saved from GOD's wrath and having peace with HIM, there is nothing you can do and there is something you must do.[23] There is nothing you can do because your saving sacrifice must be wrought by GOD. There is something you must do because you must put on the coat (white raiment), that is, become holy, that is, become willing to judge HIS enemies, that is, open the door to HIM and let HIM in, that is, be adopted, that is, repent, at least of your unholiness. In other words, the mere belief in HIS saving sacrifice gets you no closer to GOD's kingdom than you are right now. Until you repent and open up (believe) to the extent of being holy, you are just putting in correctional time, either down here or in the worlds of the dead. We were “put out” for not being holy and we will not get back in until we are holy, even though the blood has been shed.


In other words, without holiness we just stay in the exilic state we have been in for the last ~6000 years, and Jesus will not clean up this place (hold His judgement), until it fulfils the purpose HE created it to do, that is, to bring everyone of the elect unto repentance and faith unto holiness, and when it does, then we will get to live in the Promised Land in peace.[24]



Job 10:9 Remember, I beseech THEE, that THOU hast made me as the clay; and wilt THOU bring me into dust again? Me in this Scripture refers primarily to Job's spirit, rather than to his body. This is shown by verses 11 and 12: THOU hast clothed me with skin and flesh, and hast fenced me with bones and sinews. THOU hast granted me life and favour, ... Therefore, we can read the second part of verse 9 as saying, Wilt THOU bring my spirit into dust again?



Now, what does it mean by the word “dust”? Well, dust was the state of Adam's body before it was created, as in Genesis 3:19...till thou return unto the ground: for out of it wast thou taken, for dust thou art and unto dust thou shalt return.[25] In this verse, we can see that the second “dust” means the state of the body before it was created or given life. Therefore when Job speaks of his spirit being brought to dust, I think it means that state which the spirit was in before it was given life. (This interpretation is also attested to by Ecclesiastes 12:7, and Genesis 4:10, wherein Abel's voice spoke in death, from the “ground”.) The fact that Job describes this “dust” state as an “again” further connotes the pre-conception existence of the spirit. This interpretation also opens up new possibilities for 10:13a And these things hast THOU hid in THINE heart: Might Job's author be indicating that he knew that these things (our pre-conception existence and incarnation) had to remain hidden from general knowledge? Looks like it to me.







Job 38:4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding. Well now, this is a pretty straight forward question, and it seems that, in GOD's view, if Job understands what it is all about, Job must also know of his whereabouts at the time when GOD laid the foundations of the Earth. This implies that Job was somewhere when GOD created the Earth, right? Of course, it can't mean that because we all know (have understanding) that we did not exist then, so it has got to mean something else, anything else.


Of course, if it means something else, then this becomes a pretty stupid question. Like, why don't you go around for a day and ask all your friends at work where they were when they didn't exist yet? Just how many of them would walk away convicted of their inferiority to you regarding the right way to go about living life (which is what GOD was trying to show Job by asking him this question)? Well, no doubt some of you fancy dancers[26] will still want to cling to the security of the traditional interpretation. Okay but, that is the most insecure way to go. That's not the rock that will withstand the next flood. Trouble is, you'll probably never believe me until it's proven to you, right? So, read on! We’re not finished yet.




The Wisdom of Solomon 8:20(NEB) As a child, I was born to excellence and a noble soul fell to my lot; or rather, I myself was noble, and I entered into an unblemished body ......
(JB) I was a boy of happy disposition. I had received a good soul as my lot, or that, being good, I had entered an undefiled body. Whoever this author was, he certainly was rather pro pre-conception existence.


The words, “as my lot” are very interesting too. It seems that he viewed the blessings of his incarnation as a reward from GOD.[27] This then has a bearing on the doctrine of rewards, for it is an obvious question that if our entire life is in GOD's hands and if every bit of goodness that comes forth in our life has its source in GOD's prevenient[28] grace, just how can we be rewarded for that which we have received from GOD?[29] Should it not be GOD who gets the rewards? Only if we throw pre-conception works on to the scale, as Solomon seems to in this verse, do we then come up with a reasonable basis for the doctrine of rewards, that is, for the fact that some receive much more grace in their life than others. In other words, this life and all the grace that is encapsulated in it, is somewhat linked to our pre-conception works.

The Wisdom of Solomon 10:1(JB)...the father of the world, the first being to be fashioned, created alone. Since we can tell that this author believed in pre-conception theology from Wisdom 8:20(see the preceding argument) should we not interpret his choice of words in this verse in light of that presupposition (presupposing that he is translated correctly, which is not always a good presupposition to make). If we take the author's pre-existence views into account, then we have a pre-existent spiritual being (a personal being, hence, a person) who was later fashioned into a living being (oft times called a human being). In addition to this witness to this being's pre-fashioning existence, the verse also infers that this being was but the first in a long line of persons that were so fashioned. It also seems that Solomon (or whoever) had twigged on the spiritual meaning of alone. Of course, the wisest guy should know some theological secrets that hardly anyone else knows, should he not?

 
 
 ---------------------------------------------------------
Notes for Misfits, the first
1 - Otherwise known as the uncategory.


2 - This is a very important type (example) and I am afraid that very many people have not fully understood it. Therefore, because it is so important and so misunderstood, I would like to add my say to the already large pile of Biblical Scholarship. In other words, since our theologians have erred in their diagnosis of the cause of our problems with GOD, perhaps we should take another look at the solution GOD gave us in Genesis, because they probably made some mistakes there too, being that these things are so intimately related. In other words, this is not a verse that gives direct proof that we existed before our conception but rather, it shows that the Scriptures say that the most important aspect of having “peace with GOD again in Eden” is our becoming holy, which fact exactly matches pre-conception existence theology.


3 - Ie, of getting back to Eden.


4 - Otherwise known as unsaving faith. Checked lately to see what material your raiment (wedding garment) is made of? Or didn't you know that fig leaves are now being marketed under the brand name “Whiter than white linen"? Checked to see if it is clean and well pressed, as per Ephesians 5:27?


5 - Hence, the poisonousness of being unholy, since that is why they disobeyed.Back:


6 - If you do not recognise the gravity of the situation, please refer back to the WAGES OF SIN, about page 16 in THY WILL BE DONE.


7 - See Genesis note 33 on fig leaves.


8 - Most likely in the willingness to judge and be separate from HIS enemies, that is, in
faith unto holiness at least. It is not explicit in the Scriptures, but from the general drift of Genesis 3:7-14, it seems that they were very close to the serpent when GOD found
them. Was it just ironic coincidence, or could it be that they went to the serpent for help to hide? Perhaps they were just mysteriously drawn to his presence?


9 - Most likely because it symbolised believing in GOD to the degree of being willing to not ever eat of the forbidden fruit anymore, that is, of not ever listening to the serpent anymore, that is, it symbolised their being holy.


10 - Ephesians 4:24 and 5:27 And that ye put on the new man, which after GOD is created in righteousness and true holiness. / That He might present it to Himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish (in this regard at least).


11 - That is, being forgiven, made righteous, made holy, at peace with GOD.


12 - As Jesus warned (the latter day Church) in Luke 17:21 Remember Lot's wife. She had to look back to her family and friends. I guess she did not like what she saw, that is, she did not think that GOD was right to hurt them that much, that is, she suddenly became unholy! Hence, she was judged with them. And just how many other  Christians are like Mrs. Disobedient Unholy Lot? Lots right? (Hence, we may get the great falling away of 2 Thessalonians 2:3.)


13 - If you have the holiness coat on.


14 - Much to M. Luther and everyone else's dismay!


15 - There is a possible exception here but it's very expensive. Maybe I’ll tell you about it next year.


16 - As per James 2:20. And please take note of his example of saving faith in action in verse 21.


17 - Although you might be convinced, somewhat akin to the Laodicean delusion of Revelation 3:17, that you do have peace with GOD. Of the seven Churches, I believe that this is the one that has the most members.


18 - Which event He may bring to pass in just a few short years, so don't go too slow on it.


19 - Matthew 7:21, 22:11 Not every one that saith unto Me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven, but he that doeth the will of My Father… / … and the wedding was furnished with guests. And when the king came in to see the guests, He saw there a man who had not on a wedding garment. … and (He said you) cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. How are you going to do when he starts weeping “in repentance”? Are you still going to do the will of the Father who wants you to throw him out?


20 - And maybe even getting religious about it.


21 - I believe He was alluding to this very situation in Genesis when they were expelled from the garden when they were no longer naked. They had their skin coats on! There is a big difference between conversion and adoption. Sometimes they happen at the same time, but usually they take place many years apart (just like there is a big difference between getting out of Egypt and getting into the Promised Land, or between falling in love and getting married, ie, being adopted into your partner's family).


23 - Otherwise known as the faith and works dilemma. Saving faith brings forth certain works, or repentance to a certain degree, that is, you will stop doing most of your sins, but you will not stop completely, that is, become perfect. Some of these sins are listed in the NT, to wit: fornication, stealing, lying, etc (see 1 Corinthians 5:11, 6:9; Galatians 5:19; Ephesians 5:3; Colossians 3:5 and Revelation 21:8). Well, in addition to all such evils, I hope that you can now see that you can not have saving faith and still be unholy, as per James 4:4...know ye not that the friendship of the world (any member, even if it is your infant child, Matthew 10:37) is enmity with GOD. In other words, the angels will get you out of Sodom, but you can not disobey, that is, look back, even if your family and friends are back there screaming, wailing, howling, and being roasted alive in GOD’s judgement.


24 - This very same example is reiterated in both Testaments too. In the OT, we have blood of the Passover (Paschal) Lamb, as well as its body, with the bitter herbs and holiness, that is, the willingness to leave Egypt immediately, and one was not covered by the blood unless one was willing to fulfil these other requirements as well. In the NT, we have the broken Loaf and the Wine, and the blood does not cover one unless one is also willing to partake of it and of the Loaf. And I believe that it is correct to say that one must be willing to eat and drink all of it, that there can not be any of it left over (out) because that is sin. (It seems to me that if one is going to believe in the transubstantiation of the bread and wine, one must also believe the same about the flesh of the paschal lamb and the sin offering.)



25 - It is also interesting to note that in Genesis 3:19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground, for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return., in the first description of death in the Bible, the word return plays a prominent part. It seems that Scripture begins by preferring to view death as a return, rather than as a new experience.


26 - There was a song in the seventies by Cat Stevens that had a verse that went like this:
I know a lot of fancy dancers,
people who can glide you on a floor.
They move so smooth, but have no answers when you ask,
why did you come here for?


27 - The lot being the divine way of dividing things up for us. There is no such thing as “chance” with GOD.


28 - Prevenient: grace which disposes the heart of man to seek GOD as per John 6:44 No man come to Me, except the Father which hath sent Me draw him…


29 - If you are one of those who holds that we get rewarded for our degree of cooperation with the grace of GOD, then you must also believe that we all get the same amount of grace in this life and that it's not so effectual in some as it is in others. To my mind, one problem with this idea is, just how many people do you know that have seen what Paul and Moses saw, as many times as they saw it, and how many do you know who have gone up to heaven? Another problem is that this kind of GOD just seems to get weaker and weaker as time passes and things become more and more evil, whereas with different degrees of GOD's grace, grace seems to increase as times become darker and darker, that is, as our need becomes greater and greater. (This book being an excellent example.  For some of us who were in on what God was doing, things have been getting brighter and brighter.) As for proof that we receive different degrees of grace in this life, I would submit Luke 12:48 For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required.

You place everything in the Bible spirtually???

Blade
1 Cor 15:3-4.."For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:"

Acts 17:11.."These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so."

Ted T.

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Re: Miscellaneous verse Misfits the First:
« Reply #2 on: September 13, 2019, 02:20:09 pm »
You place everything in the Bible spirtually???
Blade

Everything in the Bible and in the lives of man has one purpose, to bring HIS sinful elect to redemption and sanctification so the postponement of the judgement may end: Matt 13:28 ... So the servants asked him, ‘Do you want us to go and pull them up [bring the judgement upon them]?’ ‘No,’ he said, ‘if you pull the weeds now, you might uproot the wheat with them. Let both grow together until the harvest.

No earthly experience is wasted, no jot nor tittle of scripture is wasted but all is useful to HIS purpose, to cleanse the earth of evil and to start the holy marriage we call heaven.There is only spiritual meaning - the worldly pov is dross.

 

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